do u concede the takedown/or position

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by devante, May 18, 2008.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i understand in grappling, the key is to work on grappling i.e. subs, ground control, sweeps, escapes, etc; nonetheless i don't think people should ignore KEY aspects of the game takedown def and being able to escape to your feet being two of them.

    im not saying to run or to not be willing to stay on the ground and grapple; but the two things i discussed are part of the game, an something most grapplers will deal w/when training mma, self def or even just when grappling , so arent you doing your partners a disservice by not having them deal w/two elements of the game that can or will cause problems.

    i mean if u are on the ground u don't concede position or submiissions and so on; so why and the hell do u concede the takedown, it will only weaken that element of their game and make them misunderstand or overrate other elements of their game.

    i have had some guys who have taken issue w/me sprawling them out or using footwork to limit their ability to close and or eff shoot an clinch; i don't run and im willing to hit the mat and grapple. But if your takedowns suck or your footwork sucks, how am i helping u by staying right there for u to get to reach or tie up and what sense does it make for me to let u take me down when u give a crappy shot.

    an if your holding me down and trying to control or sub me; if i can, i will rev, scramble, squirm out and get away from u and make u do the whole thing over, if u want me to stay down its ur job to keep me there and to finish

    thoughts/opinions
     
  2. txfighter13

    txfighter13 Purple Belt

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    I always look for the position over anything else, say a submission or a takedown. If you have a superior position, the submission will come easier.
     
  3. xbourquex

    xbourquex White Belt

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    Position over submission.
     
  4. Deloitte

    Deloitte Blue Belt

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    Just wondering, you don't try to squirm out from underneath when you have guard to get it standing during BJJ practice right?
     
  5. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    no, i don't do that; im not talking about running or avoiding grappling, im talking about just not giving up positions or letting someone just control u or keep u in a position for the sake of grappling

    i mean there are times when i have done that, an used the butterfly guard, then pushed off to get space and get back up; but its not something i use exclusively, usually i try to sweep and gain top position.

    i just see so many people who allow themselves to be taken down and/or allow themselves to be working from the guard; not saying you shouldn't work from there or develop that aspect of your game. But not everyone is willing to concede takedowns or positions, some people will resist/look to counter/or cleanly defend; if everyone u roll w/allows you to do so ur offensive wrestling/ground control will suffer, as will your conditioning cus ur used to not have to work to control, or get someone down.

    i just have been a few grappling clubs where people don't seem to fight to resist or escape on the ground, nor do they do that def takedowns/throws/trips; i just feel it leaves your training partner and yourself at a dusadvantage cus ur not preparing for all possibilities.
     
  6. TheGambler13

    TheGambler13 Green Belt

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    Position yields submissions.
     
  7. green_machine

    green_machine Orange Belt

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    I know what you mean, and there's kind of a grey line. I play alot of half guard, and I'm pretty decent at it, but if I'm a little loose, there's a couple guys that will instead just use all their strength to just stand up and forcefully yank their leg out and back off. On one hand, I feel they should stay and engage and try to pass my guard and learn how to avoid the sweeps, but on the other hand, that's my domain and I should be keeping them there in order to impose my game.
     
  8. Systemanoob**

    Systemanoob** Banned Banned

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    Theoretically, you cannot sub from a bad position, I don't care what anyone says. Perfect play from both sides would result in the guy with superior position winning 10/10.
     
  9. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    exactly my point, engaging is the game; but not everyone is going to try to engage u, some will try to get away and make u come after them to bring them to your domain again. I know i do this to wear people down and more importantly allow myself an opp to counter their attempt or put them in the position i want them not under the circumstances they want; example u got me on the ground i pull back and stand u shoot, i guillotine you. Or maybe uy keep trying to shoot or trip or throw me; an u eventually get me down, but ur worn down from the attempts that i can control, outposition and or finish u.


    u have to be prepared for every type of person, style; an not everyone is gonna engage u, not that willingingly, esp in self def and mma matches and n some grappling....

    thanks for your post, i appreciate it
     
  10. benefit37

    benefit37 White Belt

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    position.
    in the position you can change positions and get better submissions.
     
  11. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    I think the relationship between position and submission is a lot more complicated than the platitude "position before submission" suggests.

    A lot of times, attacking with a submission can help advance your position. There is a lot of subtlety in knowing how to mix the two together for the best results. I think it's one of the harder parts of BJJ.
     
  12. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    Unlike a lot of people, I don't stress position before submission to anymore but the beginners. I know it's a key concept, but I work on subbing during transitions all the time. Subbing from scrambles... I sub people from bottom side mount fairly consistently, and if I can't sub em, I can make em squirm enough to sweep.
     

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