Do people really not understand the difference between Half-life and Metabolite detection times?

[MysticGOD]

Half life of 16 hours does not fucking mean that the metabolites of that drug are completely excreted from the body in 16 hours. It means that the active component of the drug is reduced by 50% in 16 hours.

Steroids cause organic growth of tissues in body, metabolites can get retained in fat cells and they depend upon number of factors, such as, age, metabolism, tolerance, physical illnesses and much more.

The real reason to doubt Jones is that how an athlete of his caliber not have excreted all the metabolites in 450 days since only people who have more body fat have higher chance of retaining these drug metabolites.

There is also one counter to this argument that since Jones was not cutting any weight, so therefore he did not piss hot for the previous tests but now since hes cutting weight, thats why USADA found 60 pg/ml of M3(Trust me, its a very very very small amount) in Jones body.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

get all that shit that makes sense outta here

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

This is Sherdog.

We don't even read OP's, let alone know basic science.

 

[MikalP]

Everyone is on something. The tests are inconsistent and easily beatable - If you think the first time a guy gets caught is the first time he took something, you're out of your mind.

Who cares.

 

[Karelinator]

16 hours of half life means that steroid does break down/is broken down into various metabolites very quickly.

After 10 days amounts of substances would be at 2 per-miles of starting amount.

After 17 months you honestly got to think metabolites would be gone, and that's what they had told Mir.

 

[Threetrees]

People will say you’re trolling because you’re making a statement different than the masses.

 

[dildos]

jones sympathises are fooking pathetic.

17 months later and they are still grasping for straws.

 

[franklinstower]

16 hours of half life means that steroid does break down/is broken down into various metabolites very quickly.

After 10 days amounts of substances would be at 2 per-miles of starting amount.

After 17 months you honestly got to think metabolites would be gone, and that's what they had told Mir.

Not to mention that the original test only showed tiny amounts to begin with...... how do tiny amounts survive in the body or a professional athlete for 17 months? Bullshit is how.

 

[Pakuded]

16 hours of half life means that steroid does break down/is broken down into various metabolites very quickly.

After 10 days amounts of substances would be at 2 per-miles of starting amount.

After 17 months you honestly got to think metabolites would be gone, and that's what they had told Mir.

Shhhhh they are trying to have a circle jerk in here.

Don't go ruining it to reasoning and logic.

 

[VenomCarnage]

Half life of 16 hours does not fucking mean that the metabolites of that drug are completely excreted from the body in 16 hours. It means that the active component of the drug is reduced by 50% in 16 hours.

Steroids cause organic growth of tissues in body, metabolites can get retained in fat cells and they depend upon number of factors, such as, age, metabolism, tolerance, physical illnesses and much more.

The real reason to doubt Jones is that how an athlete of his caliber not have excreted all the metabolites in 450 days since only people who have more body fat have higher chance of retaining these drug metabolites.

There is also one counter to this argument that since Jones was not cutting any weight, so therefore he did not piss hot for the previous tests but now since hes cutting weight, thats why USADA found 60 pg/ml of M3(Trust me, its a very very very small amount) in Jones body.

So if the active component is halved in 16 hours, how about 12,410 hours?

Rodchenkov said the detection is between 4-6 months.

17 months is a pipe dream.

 

[Threetrees]

@MysticGOD because I know you’re actually interested

www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9509941/georgia-bulldogs-lineman-kolton-houston-eligible-3-year-battle

https://www.abc15.com/sports/sports...er-reinstated-by-ncaa-after-failing-drug-test


Courtesy of Ariel

 

[20falarVerdades]

This is true, but Sherdog posters will call you names and post Juice Head memes for likes. If you read some cycling forums you'll see how much more mature and high level the discussions are

 

[Breaking]

I don’t doubt any of that in the abstract.

But if it were that straightforward in this particular case, then why hasn’t anyone explained it in that way? With the Millions in PR and marketing that WME does, they couldn’t have gotten a scientist to explain this to the NSAC?

Or to ESPN? Or to the myriad sports outlets that cover other sports with PED issues?

With all the other drug tests from all the other athletes in all the other sports, you’d figure that this kind of situation would happen pretty frequently—where “there’s no way of knowing if there’s been a new ingestion.”

Have you seen anything like this before?

 

[MysticGOD]

This is where a good understanding of math comes in handy.

Half lives in the body's fat cells via dispersion are based on averages and averages are supposed to be applied to large population samples. That's why there's such things in statistics as population sizes, degrees of freedom, statistical significance, standard deviation, z-score, etc. So, using that half-life, which is an average, makes sense when you have a meaningful concentration level that would only test dispersion across all the body's fat cells (aka -- a large population size).

It's entirely possible that a few fat cells somewhere didn't disperse with the blood at the rate of the average half life dispersion rate for whatever reason and when you're looking at detection levels virtually indistinguishable from 0, that low population size of a few cells matters via giving it a low statistical significance -- basically a low z-score.

Meaning that in this specific instance, what Jones and the UFC are saying makes a lot of sense.

Exactly, i didnt go into the z scores and stuff since i didnt think most of the people here would understand. Thanks for explaining tho

 

[Threetrees]

I don’t doubt any of that in the abstract.

But if it were that straightforward in this particular case, then why hasn’t anyone explained it in that way? With the Millions in PR and marketing that WME does, they couldn’t have gotten a scientist to explain this to the NSAC?

Or to ESPN? Or to the myriad sports outlets that cover other sports with PED issues?

The NSAC just stated that they wanted to have a hearing before letting Jones fight under their juridistction
That’s reasonable
The CSAC was informed that this was not a new ingestion, and thus not a new case, and has already had a hearing for Jones on this very issue so they had no trouble credentialling him

 

[blaseblah]

There is also one counter to this argument that since Jones was not cutting any weight, so therefore he did not piss hot for the previous tests but now since hes cutting weight, thats why USADA found 60 pg/ml of M3(Trust me, its a very very very small amount) in Jones body.

Your very very very small amount is similar to what other fighters test positive for.

Stop pretending like the amount matters. The point is he has an illegal substance in his system. It's against the rules.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Go back go Commission testing. Lets talk about fights and not drugs..

 

[MysticGOD]

Your very very very small amount is similar to what other fighters test positive for.

Stop pretending like the amount matters. The point is he has an illegal substance in his system. It's against the rules.

He already served the suspension for the substance he ingested in 2017, why would he go through all of the process again?
And your assumption of him having ingested this substance again is no better or supported by any evidence than my assumption of this new positive drug test being positive from the previous ingestion in 2017.

Edit: Forgot to add that its a very well known sciencitifc logic that whenever in doubt, we stick with the default assumption

 

[The Merchant]

Half life of 16 hours does not fucking mean that the metabolites of that drug are completely excreted from the body in 16 hours. It means that the active component of the drug is reduced by 50% in 16 hours.

Steroids cause organic growth of tissues in body, metabolites can get retained in fat cells and they depend upon number of factors, such as, age, metabolism, tolerance, physical illnesses and much more.

The real reason to doubt Jones is that how an athlete of his caliber not have excreted all the metabolites in 450 days since only people who have more body fat have higher chance of retaining these drug metabolites.

There is also one counter to this argument that since Jones was not cutting any weight, so therefore he did not piss hot for the previous tests but now since hes cutting weight, thats why USADA found 60 pg/ml of M3(Trust me, its a very very very small amount) in Jones body.

What is the peripheral half-lie of Turinbol in fat then. Is it Biphasic?

 

[Gluteus Swag]

You do know that 735 half-lives have passed since he was found with a pinch of salt inside an Olympic swimming pool quantity of Tbol in his system?

Here's how many picograms of Tbol should be in his system giving his starting point: 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000025 picograms

That's 240 zeroes.