Opinion Disney CEO Bob Iger says company’s movies have been too focused on messaging

Well, you're wrong. Even when a Disney film is about a female character the men do most of the speaking and push most of the action. There are isolated exceptions but on the whole it's overwhelmingly straight white male.

Watch Aladdin now, there's a disclaimer due to the insulting stereotypes. it's not quite Song of the South but it's pretty bad.

Gay people make up 7% of the US population, why can't they be in Disney films?

This is a discussion of racism and sexism, of course it's going to be unpleasant. That doesn't mean it can't be polite.

In which Disney movies with a female protagonist does a male have the most dialogue? Cinderella? Beauty and the Beast? Alice in Wonderland? Mulan? Pocahontas? Frozen?

How many Disney movies are there with straight white male protagonists? I can think of Hercules (being race swapped to a black guy in the live action remake), Tarzan, and Peter Pan. The Incredibles? I guess Pinocchio and Toy Story if you include toys as straight white males. Although I don't think we know Pinochio's sexuality.

LGBT were 4% of Canada in 2018 according to statcanada. Taking the upper estimate of all polls from the 2020s is a bit stupid. Regardless, 98% (half of the 4% of LGBT are bi) of people can relate to straight couples and only 2% can relate to any particular gay couple (2% of people are gay or bi men and 2% are gay or bi women).

With regard to why there aren't more gay protagonists, you can blame the left wing I guess. They are half of voters. They should be a big enough group to market to. Just like that Bill Burr skit in which he blames women for failing the WNBA, I suppose progressives are failing gay people.
 
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there have been gay characters in Disney movies

He means protagonists. Gay supporting characters are everywhere in media. I'm not sure about gay protagonists as I admittedly wouldn't be interested in the watching the vast majority of them. That movie Bros flopped because not even left wingers wanted to watch it.

His 7% figure is way too high though as I said. Even going by the highest estimates, it's 7% who are LGBT with slightly more than half of those being bi. The average estimate these days is more like 5% LGBT with slightly less than 2.5% being gay.
 
He means protagonists. Gay supporting characters are everywhere in media. I'm not sure about gay protagonists as I admittedly wouldn't be interested in the watching the vast majority of them. That movie Bros flopped because not even left wingers wanted to watch it.

His 7% figure is way too high though as I said. Even going by the highest estimates, it's 7% who are LGBT with slightly more than half of those being bi. The average estimate these days is more like 5% LGBT with slightly less than 2.5% being gay.
idk, i’d probably consider Ethan one of the main protagonists in Strange World.
 
He means protagonists. Gay supporting characters are everywhere in media. I'm not sure about gay protagonists as I admittedly wouldn't be interested in the watching the vast majority of them. That movie Bros flopped because not even left wingers wanted to watch it.
Shit, not even gay people wanted to watch it.
 
The content that bothers part of the American public is as ridiculous as the stuff the American public laughs at Disney for censoring because of China.

For some Americans, the only appropriate protagonist is straight, white and male. There have been some huge exceptions, but that's because there's actually a pretty big market for it and those stories were good enough to blast through those expectations. Does that reinforce the idea that story is the most important thing? Sure, but let's not pretend that the bar isn't MUCH higher for diverse characters. And gay characters? They make up a big chunk of the population and yet are mostly banned in Disney, any characters who lean gay always generate a ton of outrage.

I mean, a lot of this is true but there's a TON that goes into these things and you're getting into some really deep stuff in terms of the human psyche. People tend to be tribal, and tend to gravitate toward things they can most closely relate to. And the exceptions are generally that if they can't closely relate, they at least ASPIRE to it.
You can probably toss out the "male" part at this point though. Female protagonists can and do smash at the box office and narrowing it down to Disney stuff that's geared towards kids (since that's the thread topic), females have taken the lead more often than not. Frozen is the biggest financial success the company has ever had and the two leads were female. And it's not like that's a one-off, Disney has a LONG history of successful movies with female leads (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Princess and the Frog, Tangled, the Scottish one with Meredith--can't remember the name LOL, Moana, etc etc etc). MOST of their kids movies feature female leads. I know, my daughter watched every one of them numerous times when she was younger.

The reality is that movie studios are for profit and eventually if shareholders aren't getting the returns they want, smart execs have to ignore that maybe some white people in a perfect world would be more open to minority or gay lead characters. Honestly, even the minority angle is fading IF they make a movie where a minority lead is compelling and makes sense. Moana did extremely well with a female minority lead, because...duh, everything about the character fit and they made a movie that captured kids into the story.

For a lot of Americans in terms of the gay aspect, it's just comes down to how well they relate. As I said before, Americans want either characters they relate to or characters they aspire to be. For 90%+ of the population, an outwardly gay character (assuming that's made clear and is some part of the story) doesn't fit the first part. It CAN fit the second depending on other factors but since the overwhelming majority of those taking their kids to see movies are straight (not that there aren't gay parents, but they are obviously a tiny minority), they gravitate toward characters that match to some degree their own lives. It might not even be a conscious thing.

The thing is, there's a reality for the future that is going to make conversations like these largely moot. Not in our lifetimes, but it's coming. Down the road, most Americans will be some sort of interracial mix. The world has shrank, the stigmas of interracial procreation are disappearing, and this is going to be a nation of mainly light brown skinned people. The gay aspect will become less of an obstacle as well, people care less and less about it as time goes by. 20 years ago a gay couple as protagonists would have seemed at the very least a little bizarre to me. Now? Barely a thought. I watched that M Night Shyamalan movie with the gay dads as the two protagonists and I didn't really even think about it until a scene where one brought it up as a reason that the crazy thing was being done to them. So I guess if this is something that bothers you, I'd say at least feel good that after we're gone sometime in the future these issues largely won't exist.
 
Well, you're wrong. Even when a Disney film is about a female character the men do most of the speaking and push most of the action. There are isolated exceptions but on the whole it's overwhelmingly straight white male.

Watch Aladdin now, there's a disclaimer due to the insulting stereotypes. it's not quite Song of the South but it's pretty bad.

Gay people make up 7% of the US population, why can't they be in Disney films?

This is a discussion of racism and sexism, of course it's going to be unpleasant. That doesn't mean it can't be polite.

See my last post, in terms of female leads. Some of your points are valid but that one...no. All those movies I listed (and I can list a bunch more) were successful and the female leads drove the action and the story.
 
In which Disney movies with a female protagonist does a male have the most dialogue? Cinderella? Beauty and the Beast? Alice in Wonderland? Mulan? Pocahontas? Frozen?

How many Disney movies are there with straight white male protagonists? I can think of Hercules (being race swapped to a black guy in the live action remake), Tarzan, and Peter Pan. The Incredibles? I guess Pinocchio and Toy Story if you include toys as straight white males. Although I don't think we know Pinochio's sexuality.

LGBT were 4% of Canada in 2018 according to statcanada. Taking the upper estimate of all polls from the 2020s is a bit stupid. Regardless, 98% (half of the 4% of LGBT are bi) of people can relate to straight couples and only 2% can relate to any particular gay couple (2% of people are gay or bi men and 2% are gay or bi women).

With regard to why there aren't more gay protagonists, you can blame the left wing I guess. They are half of voters. They should be a big enough group to market to. Just like that Bill Burr skit in which he blames women for failing the WNBA, I suppose progressives are failing gay people.

I don't have the energy to argue with a half dozen people, so I'll leave you with this.

Pocahontas, Mulan, and The Little Mermaid might be films named after their title female characters, but that doesn’t mean they dominate the films’ scripts: According to research by linguists Carmen Fought and Karen Eisenhaur, male characters spoke more than female characters in Disney animated films made between 1989 and 1999, The Washington Post reports.

It wasn’t always like this though. Women speak as much or more than men in some of Disney’s biggest earlier films like 1937’s Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and 1950’s Cinderella. But male characters spoke 68 percent of the time in 1989’s The Little Mermaid, 71 percent in 1991’s Beauty and the Beast, 90 percent in 1992’s Aladdin, and 77 percent in 1998’s Mulan.
 
I don't have the energy to argue with a half dozen people, so I'll leave you with this.

Pocahontas, Mulan, and The Little Mermaid might be films named after their title female characters, but that doesn’t mean they dominate the films’ scripts: According to research by linguists Carmen Fought and Karen Eisenhaur, male characters spoke more than female characters in Disney animated films made between 1989 and 1999, The Washington Post reports.

It wasn’t always like this though. Women speak as much or more than men in some of Disney’s biggest earlier films like 1937’s Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and 1950’s Cinderella. But male characters spoke 68 percent of the time in 1989’s The Little Mermaid, 71 percent in 1991’s Beauty and the Beast, 90 percent in 1992’s Aladdin, and 77 percent in 1998’s Mulan.

Do Sebastian the crab and Flounder count as males next to Ariel? lol. I actually misread what you said and I thought you meant that a particular male character had more dialogue than the female lead. Male characters collectively speaking more than all females is believable especially in movies like Pocohontas that had a war/battle as a major part of its storyline. Same with Mulan.
 
Barbie had messaging and made a shitload of money. Think it had more to do with superhero fatigue and a saturated market…
 
I don't have the energy to argue with a half dozen people, so I'll leave you with this.

Pocahontas, Mulan, and The Little Mermaid might be films named after their title female characters, but that doesn’t mean they dominate the films’ scripts: According to research by linguists Carmen Fought and Karen Eisenhaur, male characters spoke more than female characters in Disney animated films made between 1989 and 1999, The Washington Post reports.

It wasn’t always like this though. Women speak as much or more than men in some of Disney’s biggest earlier films like 1937’s Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and 1950’s Cinderella. But male characters spoke 68 percent of the time in 1989’s The Little Mermaid, 71 percent in 1991’s Beauty and the Beast, 90 percent in 1992’s Aladdin, and 77 percent in 1998’s Mulan.

You’re like a Disney auditor. Crazy stats.
 
I don't have the energy to argue with a half dozen people, so I'll leave you with this.

Pocahontas, Mulan, and The Little Mermaid might be films named after their title female characters, but that doesn’t mean they dominate the films’ scripts: According to research by linguists Carmen Fought and Karen Eisenhaur, male characters spoke more than female characters in Disney animated films made between 1989 and 1999, The Washington Post reports.

It wasn’t always like this though. Women speak as much or more than men in some of Disney’s biggest earlier films like 1937’s Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and 1950’s Cinderella. But male characters spoke 68 percent of the time in 1989’s The Little Mermaid, 71 percent in 1991’s Beauty and the Beast, 90 percent in 1992’s Aladdin, and 77 percent in 1998’s Mulan.

That's really misleading. Beauty and the Beast for example has a lot more male characters, Belle still has by far the most (and most important to the story by a mile) dialogue of any character. She's the protagonist, and everything about the movie makes that clear.
 
The content that bothers part of the American public is as ridiculous as the stuff the American public laughs at Disney for censoring because of China.

For some Americans, the only appropriate protagonist is straight, white and male. There have been some huge exceptions, but that's because there's actually a pretty big market for it and those stories were good enough to blast through those expectations. Does that reinforce the idea that story is the most important thing? Sure, but let's not pretend that the bar isn't MUCH higher for diverse characters. And gay characters? They make up a big chunk of the population and yet are mostly banned in Disney, any characters who lean gay always generate a ton of outrage.

I'm Korean-American and I completely disagree the recent Disney stuff is not popular because it's not straight white male. It's doing bad because the plots SUCK ASS. The writing sucks, the character development sucks, the plot cohesion sucks. The stories have not been good. Simple as that.

Most of us DO NOT GIVE A SHIT if the main character is female or another race. We just want good stories. Coco was a pretty good movie about the Mexican Day of the Dead and it didn't have white people. No one cared and it did well. Squid Game was completely Asian and everyone watched it.

What most people have a problem with is Disney REPLACING good writing and storytelling with "messaging" or "diversity." We go to movies to be entertained, not lectured.

It's fine if a character is gay, but don't make the character gay just to make a point about representation. Rather just have a well written character that just happens to be gay.

And the lame remakes - ughh. People do not want beloved characters they grew up with to be a completely different race or sex.

I'm Asian, and I don't all of a sudden want Han Solo to be Asian. The Little Mermaid did horrible in Asia because they wanted the Ariel they grew up watching - the red haired white girl. Not a black girl all of a sudden with brown braids. It's too much of a departure from their childhood memories.

And don't tell me the Asian audience didn't like Mermaid due to racism - Mulan and Shang Chi tanked as well.

Conversely, Black Panther did really well in Asia. Why? Because it's a GOOD STORY. Not a lame race/sex swap to an existing character.

Just make good new stories with diverse characters. Don't completely swap beloved older characters.

And most importantly, just have GOOD STORYTELLING.

 
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Barbie wasn't really woke


That’s your argument? That lady gave a 20 minute review-word-salad. Yeah, sounds like a really dumbed-down movie. No messaging whatsoever…
 

Such an East Asian thing - Most of the people in that video know what the deal is but won't say it. Only that one guy near the end said what he was really thinking when he went on about "Who they are to lecture us?"

When I lived in Korea I used to test my Korean friends by pretending to be a Flat Earther. They wouldn't call me out on that, they would just softly say "I think Earth is round" when I pressed them about it...and they were even hesitant to say that. That's how they are - refusing to call a spade a spade.
 
Such an East Asian thing - Most of the people in that video know what the deal is but won't say it. Only that one guy near the end said what he was really thinking when he went on about "Who they are to lecture us?"

When I lived in Korea I used to test my Korean friends by pretending to be a Flat Earther. They wouldn't call me out on that, they would just softly say "I think Earth is round" when I pressed them about it...and they were even hesitant to say that. That's how they are - refusing to call a spade a spade.

I mean they tend to be more polite and less confrontational. At the same time, they also do not have all these racial dynamic controversies because of their relatively homogenous population. I think they're being genuine in the video. They simply said the character is not representative of what they grew up with. AKA they don't like the race swap.
 
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