Diffrence between american and dutch kickboxing

panzer723 said:
Andy Hug? 1963 Kyokushin vs. Muay Thai at Lumpinee? Francisco Filho? Who?
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Which dutch are current lumpini or rajadamnern stadium champs?

Which dutch are full Muay Thai rules champions in any promotion?

All I can think of is Sergio wielzen.
 
And to add to that. Wielzen has been training out of Thailand for a while now to improve his skill set.

So a Dutch is going to Thailand to get better, how does that make Dutch beat Thais at their own game again?
 
FokaiMuayThai said:
And to add to that. Wielzen has been training out of Thailand for a while now to improve his skill set.

So a Dutch is going to Thailand to get better, how does that make Dutch beat Thais at their own game again?
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Training in Thailand is ridiculously cheaper in comparison to training in Netherlands. I get a headache just by thinking about my accommodation bill in Amsterdam.

Read Thom Harincks memoirs, the book is out since a few months ago.
 
FokaiMuayThai said:
Which dutch are current lumpini or rajadamnern stadium champs?

Which dutch are full Muay Thai rules champions in any promotion?

All I can think of is Sergio wielzen.
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Ever heard of Ramon Dekkers?
How about Rob Kaman?
 
Chicken Fighter said:
Dutch kickboxing comes from Kyokushin Karate. A lot of combos. Low kicks. Combination boxing punches and a lack of intricate boxing defense. They shell up a lot.

American kickboxing is more boxing oriented with traditional karate/ TKD kicks. You see a lot of boxing footwork, head movement, punches, etc. as well as fancy kicks.

IMO American kickboxing > Dutch kickboxing. The americans fucked themselves up when they removed the low kicks and knees from their ruleset. Before that, a lot of American kickboxers were fighting well against Thai boxers.
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Can't say I see much evidence of this supposed boxing supremacy, if anything the reverse I think US kickboxing has been held back by a lacking of quality boxing for a rather long time. Generally I think its been too happy to isolate itself as adapted karate where as dutch kickboxing in recent decades has had much closer links to other striking styles world wide.
 
Chicken Fighter said:
Not true. Watch the old kickboxers like Peter Cunningham. Their boxing was very good. Most kickboxers at that time learned from pro-boxers. They had excellent boxing. Watch Duke Roufus' brother. He is another example. I don't think dutch kickboxers have the intricate footwork, and boxing defense as those guys in the past.
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I've seen Peter Cunningham and Rick Roufus' boxing records, they weren't good. The fact that Connor Ruebusch parrots something he heard Luis Monda say once does not make it true. And the fact that you're parroting something second hand makes you even less original.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/7162

http://boxrec.com/boxer/45550
 
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Chicken Fighter said:
Those records aren't that bad either and I don't see Dutch kickboxers with better records.
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Fact is you said they had "excellent" boxing, they don't. I wouldn't pretend to know very much about boxing, especially at the jouneyman level, but their boxing records don't look all that different to me from say Holzken and Ettouhlali's. And all of these record pale in comparison to the records of the best muay thai crossovers who, according to you, can't box at all.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/61143

http://boxrec.com/boxer/640938
 
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Chicken Fighter said:
Not true. Watch the old kickboxers like Peter Cunningham. Their boxing was very good. Most kickboxers at that time learned from pro-boxers. They had excellent boxing. Watch Duke Roufus' brother. He is another example. I don't think dutch kickboxers have the intricate footwork, and boxing defense as those guys in the past.
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There's nothing, contrary to what Connor Ruebusch might want you to believe, novel about kickfighters, of all stripes, learning from boxing trainers and taking amateur and pro bouts, it happens all the time.

Fuck, if you're going to name some above the waist kickboxers as part of an ideological argument, at least name one who accomplished something, they do exist. Troy Dorsey, James Warring, or Huck or someone.
 
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jtwarwagon4life said:
He trained at the Joe Lewis - Muhammad Ali Gym, he must have had great boxing.
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Just the way the page is written cracked me up. It totally fits the romanticized 80's kickboxer image.

A few more wins in amateur kickboxing followed, and in January 1981 Peter met the legendary Benny The Jet Urquidez, who was giving a kickboxing seminar in Vancouver, Canada. This is where The Jet told the young fighter "you are going to be a great champion". Around this time A month later Peter "Sugarfoot" Cunningham had his first professional kickboxing fight where he took on the Canadian Champion Gordy Gong. Peter won by a big KO, a round kick to the head. After the fight Sensei Rueben Urquidez and Sensei Blinky Rodriguez approached Cunningham and his mother to congratulate him on the big win, and extend an invitation to come and train out of their world class facility in Van Nuys, California, The Jet Center. This was a dream come true for Peter and he gladly accepted.

As Sugarfoot made his move to Los Angeles, he was featured on the undercard of Muhammad Ali's exhibition bout with a hockey player David Seminko. The event took place in Canada. Peter defeated his opponent, who was a World Lightweight Champion, and impressed Ali's trainer and cornerman Bundini Brown, who introduced Sugarfoot to the Champ and his family. Muhammad Ali signed a book for Peter's mom, and then suggested to Bundini to invite the young fighter to come and train at the Joe Lewis - Muhammad Ali Gym in Santa Monica, CA.

It seems that it was destiny and that the stars aligned - two of the greatest champions in their respective sports, boxing and kickboxing - both extended an invite to join them and train with them to pursue his championship aspirations. From that point on and for the next three years Peter trained at both gyms every day, at Joe Lewis - Muhammad Ali Gym in the morning and at the Jet Center in the afternoon.
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jtwarwagon4life said:
Fuck, if you're going to name some above the waist kickboxers as part of an ideological argument, at least name one who accomplished something, they do exist. Troy Dorsey, James Warring, or Huck or someone.
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Cocakillbana said:
Just the way the page is written cracked me up. It totally fits the romanticized 80's kickboxer image.
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Yeah, I remember one of the older versions of the Ramon Dekkers wiki being similar. There was a line like "but he wouldn't have been Dekkers if he didn't fight on injured!".
 
Chicken Fighter said:
That guy is a genius.
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Total fraud. The guy claims that Joe Duffy is a revolutionary because he took time out from his busy MMA career to beat up a bunch of scrubs in boxing. Claims Artem Levin is a kickboxing revolutionary because he moves his head a bit and fights slick. Claimed that Stephen Thompson was a more accomplished kickboxer than Andy Hug. Talks about how great the boxing of above the waist kickboxers is when it's clear he's never watched more than half a dozen bouts in his life. Doesn't know dick all about grappling but that doesn't stop him from chiming in. Doesn't know dick all about muay thai but denigrates it at every turn. This guy claims that because "elite" nak muay like Cosmo Alexandre and Malaipet have failed in attempts at MMA that all other muay thai stylist will fail unless they learn about boxing. What a fucking joke.
 
jtwarwagon4life said:
Total fraud. The guy claims that Joe Duffy is a revolutionary because he took time out from his busy MMA career to beat up a bunch of scrubs in boxing. Claims Artem Levin is a kickboxing revolutionary because he moves his head a bit and fights slick. Claimed that Stephen Thompson was a more accomplished kickboxer than Andy Hug. Talks about how great the boxing of above the waist kickboxers is when it's clear he's never watched more than half a dozen bouts in his life. Doesn't know dick all about grappling but that doesn't stop him from chiming in. Doesn't know dick all about muay thai but denigrates it at every turn. This guy claims that because "elite" nak muay like Cosmo Alexandre and Malaipet have failed in attempts at MMA that all other muay thai stylist will fail unless they learn about boxing. What a fucking joke.
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He has said Singdam's posture is the result of Kiatmuu9 trainers not doing their job. Apparently he thinks the way he presents himself isn't good for Muay Thai. Let that sink in.
 
Cocakillbana said:
He has said Singdam's posture is the result of Kiatmuu9 trainers not doing their job. Apparently he thinks the way he presents himself isn't good for Muay Thai. Let that sink in.
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this?
 
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