Did we see Ali fight in his prime?

takestwototango

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What also so amazing about Ali is that we never got to see the best of him in the ring imo. He stopped fighting at the age of 25 to almost the age of 30. That's crazy when you think about it. That's when most athletes are in their prime.
 
Was thinking about posting something witty as a first response to the thread to get more likes, but I can't think of anything. :(
 
Yeah, he did give up three years of his prime in the 60's. I don't recall the sort of talent that existed at that time when he stepped away from the sport. IIRC, he had cleaned out the division. When he left, the marquee names like Frazier, Foreman and Norton were still earning their spurs and by the time he came back, they were major players in the division. Could be wrong though. My point is that he stuck to his guns on his values and if he were to lose three years of his career, better those three than any other three (with the exception of the final years of his career when he clearly had nothing left to prove).
 
No, we did not. Thank the Vietnam War for that.

However, he was better off taking those 3 years off, because it allowed boxers like Joe Frazier, Jimmy Ellis and Jerry Quarry to establish themselves as credible opponents.

Ali would've probably kept cleaning house in a manner comparable to Joe Louis, and he may have faced the likes of Frazier and Foreman before they went onto establish themselves as legends on their own.
 
What also so amazing about Ali is that we never got to see the best of him in the ring imo. He stopped fighting at the age of 25 to almost the age of 30. That's crazy when you think about it. That's when most athletes are in their prime.

He was only out for 3.5 years. No, I think we saw his peak and he never was the kind of guy who was going improve much skillwise. He got lazy with training realized he could get by with his recuperation abilities. Vitali Klitchko was out of the sport for almost 4 years and never missed a beat. He probably didn't train at all while suspended and realized how much he hated road work. Look at the shortcuts he tried to take one fight with all the pills and stuff.

"Getting old" nine times out of ten means got sick of training.
 
obviously we didn't and we can only guess at the performance he would have put on. The Ali of the sixties trained joyfully, he was in peak or near peak condition each time and was improving. They say that for the Liston rematch, Ali weighed the same but both his legs and arms had gained an inch, he was still growing at 25 and still improving. Henry Cooper says the main difference between the first and second fights was Muhammad's physical strength and how strong it made his clinch, "like a vice". He retained most of his speed as he became a true big man and was hitting hard enough to finish off all but 2 of his defense opponents. The Ali who came back wasn't nearly as passionate about the sport, had lost his legs for the most part and wasn't as fast with his hands or reflexes, it's when he started to really get hit. I could see a peak Ali either kayoing or decisioning Frazier and remaining on top for who knows how long. However, everything worked out, who's to say that had ali fought those three years and started taking everyone for granted, he may not have been ready for some of the new crop, (just as he wasn't for the first Norton fight) and suffered an embarrassing loss. the comeback losses, first against frazier and then against Norton were both great wake up calls for a fighter who was running out of drive. no telling how it would have played out in another scenario, maybe letting down in a title fight against a good but mediocre opponent. The comeback added a mystique and myth to his story and unlike Tyson who came out of prison to a welcoming public, he came all the way back.
 
I thought started to show signs of getting a bit lazy in his last two fights before the ban. My guess is that, if he wasn't banned, he would never train enough to be better than he was in the Williams fight.

Ali in his prime:

 
the folley fight was the only defense where he maybe looked disinterested, we don't know if it was because he wasn't challenged or just bored or what. I do think he liked folley and respected him and wasn't in a rush to hurt him. Ali actually had high opinion of the top fighters of the late 50's early 60's, his bio states that any of them could beat him on a good night. I think he told Folley's son that he wouldn't have beaten him when he was young. Probably modesty but the guys who Patterson had avoided were actually pretty good fighters, just got old like all fighters do.
 
What also so amazing about Ali is that we never got to see the best of him in the ring imo. He stopped fighting at the age of 25 to almost the age of 30. That's crazy when you think about it. That's when most athletes are in their prime.
We did, we just missed years of it.
 
I thought started to show signs of getting a bit lazy in his last two fights before the ban.

I think he started to sit more on his punches in 1967. Nothing negative, Folley and Terrell couldn't lay a hand on him.

If they don't take away his lincense in 67, maybe everything's different. Or maybe everything's the same. Maybe Frazier still beats him in 1968.

Norton didn't breakthrough before '73, so I have no reason to believe that he would've had an easier time with Norton.

and Foreman....I don't know important it was for Ali to see Foreman destroy Frazier and Norton before he got in the ring with him. If Ali's still undefeated in 73, maybe Foreman blasts him away inside of 5 rounds because Ali underestimates him. And then we see a big rematch in Africa one year later, who knows.
 
Ali being out those years actually helped his career and mystique. As already said here, it wasn't until Foreman, Frasier and others got to be noted as beasts and quality opponents that Ali fought and eventually beat all of them.
 
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