Did the Gracies leave out a Judo player in UFC 1 because it was deemed too similiar to GJJ?

[Sasha]

t took Remco like 13 minutes to submit a 165-pound Pencak Silat fighter

Whenever I read about Pençak, I can't think about anything else than our local "self defense" lunatic. Some guy, that became ultra famous here with his videos, who is supposedly semi-legit when it comes to P-S though, but his self defense videos, especially the ones where he gives classes, became quite legendary ; the guy is a fucking sadistic fraud, he just humiliates his (non moving) students for the "sake of demonstration", but really just unnecessary hurts them because he's a deeply deranged man who thinks he's Bruce Lee.
A compilation will be more telling :

 

[Pepy]

They also avoided Chris Dolman, EU judo silver medalist and the first non-Russian sambo world champion. At 6ft2 and 260 lbs, Dolman would have been a legit threat despite the fact that he was already in 40s and retired soon afterward.

 

[mkt]

They also avoided Chris Dolman, EU judo silver medalist and the first non-Russian sambo world champion. At 6ft2 and 260 lbs, Dolman would have been a legit threat despite the fact that he was already in 40s and retired soon afterward.

Yeah, I heard about him as well. He sent letters to the Gracies challenging them but they never responded.

 

[mkt]

Whenever I read about Pençak, I can't think about anything else than our local "self defense" lunatic. Some guy, that became ultra famous here with his videos, who is supposedly semi-legit when it comes to P-S though, but his self defense videos, especially the ones where he gives classes, became quite legendary ; the guy is a fucking sadistic fraud, he just humiliate his (non moving) students for the "sake of demonstration", but really just unnecessary hurts them because he's a deeply deranged man who thinks he's Bruce Lee.
A compilation will be more telling :

Dang! He makes Cobra Kai look nice. I'm surprised he has any students left.

 

[mkt]

I can tell you exactly what he said.
He's told me directly.

You're absolutely right.

He actually had a better ground game than a lot of judoka of that time but he didn't really focus on it til he started really working with and becoming Megaton's training partner in Arizona

A couple things to keep in mind
He was already pretty old in 93.
And Ken was freakishly strong.
Christophe was actually close to Royces weight.
He said he had no business fighting ken regardless.

He actually continued doing NHB (which he also said was pretty stupid of him) and didn't do too bad. Some of its not on his record but I've seen tapes.
Still can't believe he tomoe naged guy mezger in an MMA match.

Fun little story, he met his wife because of a fight he had. She went on a date with some douchey guy, watched Christophe fight, went up to him and talked to him after the other guy got drunk.

Youch.

Yeah, he had a beautiful move in the Mezger fight but still lost. He's kind of like the original Karo--very skilled at judo but couldn't beat the best fighters of his era. He was pretty old when he started like you said, though.

 

[mkt]

You should be ashamed of this post. Rickson’s the Gracie family champion, ask any of them and they all say he’s the best.

He may have been the best at GJJ, but never fought elite guys in NHB/MMA so we'll never know how good he was at that sport.

 

[DarthChen731]

Prob

 

[Elvis.]

Yeah it worked.

As late as 2000, when Pride did their Open Weight GP, Royce was still the betting favourite to win if memory serves, as crazy as that sounds now.

The “smart” money was on a Gracie Vs Kerr final if I remember correctly

 

[Eater of Souls]

Like Dave Levicki, who was outgrappled and finished by a much smaller TKD specialist (Johnny Rhodes) at UFC 2? Beating big guys with zero grappling ability is meaningless. Tons of fighters did the same thing in the early UFC. Rickson never fought anyone close to Coleman's wrestling level. Don't believe the hype. I watched the sport from the beginning and we started seeing through the Gracies on the old AOL NHB forums in the mid-90s. Rickson is a "might have been but was never really tested" fighter when it comes to NHB/MMA.

I miss those forums.

 

[mkt]

The “smart” money was on a Gracie Vs Kerr final if I remember correctly

That's crazy, especially considering that Sakuraba had already beaten Royler, Belfort, Newton and others. And considering Royce had a 5-year layoff, the sport had evolved a lot since then and Coleman, Kerr, Igor V., Sakuraba, Mezger, Fujita and others were in the tournament.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Yeah and he had a celebrity boxing match with George Foreman after he stole the hamburger grill from Hulk. Foremen went hard and so Hogan drilled him and knocked him out. After that George was forced to give the rights to the grill back to Hulk.

I dont know what your issue is. These things all clearly happened. Documented fact. Kumite Hogan is real.

 

[Lawrence]

Yeah and he had a celebrity boxing match with George Foreman after he stole the hamburger grill from Hulk. Foremen went hard and so Hogan drilled him and knocked him out. After that George was forced to give the rights to the grill back to Hulk.

Kinda like the Thunderdome of indoor grillin.

I would not get between Big George and food.

 

[Pierced7681]

He may have been the best at GJJ, but never fought elite guys in NHB/MMA so we'll never know how good he was at that sport.

In a no time limit, submission or ko only fight, GJJ is the superior martial art, this was proven a long time ago. I’d favour prime Rickson over anyone with those rules.

 

[TheTickG]

In Hulk Hogans book

He claims he was asked to be part of UFC 1 but he demanded they let his training partner in the tourney. On the night before UFC 1 hulk hogan and his training partner Brutus Beefcake were down in the hotel lobby playing video games when Royce came up to then and tried to hustle them by doing some street magic. Brutus and Hulk nearly beat Royce up but the UFC owner came down and demanded they all separate. Hulk was furious, he was a champion of a number of underground pride fights in the 70s, he deserved respect. He called up the matchmaker and said "I'm fighting Royce in round 1." The matchmaker said we want to save you two for the finals, biggest draw. Hogan said, "that's not gonna work for me, jack." Him and Beefcake left and never looked back. What could have been?

Note: He actually said all of that in his book.

You know he's lying because he said, "jack" instead of "brutha".

 

[Yep]

In Hulk Hogans book

He claims he was asked to be part of UFC 1 but he demanded they let his training partner in the tourney. On the night before UFC 1 hulk hogan and his training partner Brutus Beefcake were down in the hotel lobby playing video games when Royce came up to then and tried to hustle them by doing some street magic. Brutus and Hulk nearly beat Royce up but the UFC owner came down and demanded they all separate. Hulk was furious, he was a champion of a number of underground pride fights in the 70s, he deserved respect. He called up the matchmaker and said "I'm fighting Royce in round 1." The matchmaker said we want to save you two for the finals, biggest draw. Hogan said, "that's not gonna work for me, jack." Him and Beefcake left and never looked back. What could have been?

Note: He actually said all of that in his book.

So I can find that in fiction at the library?

 

[Necrocrawler]

Honestly...

Its hard to say anything.
One could argue the gracies cherry picked opponents in way Royce would beat then using bjj to win the tourney

Other could argue the simplest of the simplest factor that would secure more notable names wouldnt enter the tourney: money.

In the end... All i can agree is that they avoided notable grapplers while chosing cheap guys from different striking backgrounds as a way to show that bjj was the supreme art. That was what they wanted. Not to crown a champion.

 

[Yep]

Does it matter? People aren’t thankful enough for what they did. Even if it was a scam it delivered mma to the masses. Looking back it’s awful for sure. Which is funny because I sat down with my oldest who has trained in bjj since he was 4 and he couldn’t believe how sloppy and lacking in technique it was. And then he insulted me more by asking if I really paid to watch that mess. Smart ass teenagers. Anyway, either way it was the catalyst and for that I’m grateful. It wasn’t perfect. The Gracies are far from perfect. But they packaged a new sport and marketed a martial art in a way that helped propel mma to what it is now. Oh and I personally think bjj or gjj is great so if you have an academy by you regardless of whether it is Gracie or not I suggest you check it out.

 

[mkt]

In a no time limit, submission or ko only fight, GJJ is the superior martial art, this was proven a long time ago. I’d favour prime Rickson over anyone with those rules.

LOL, I can't tell if you're still programmed by 1993-4 Gracie propaganda that most of us saw through within a couple of years...or are trolling. I sure hope it's the latter. The Gracies get KO'd repeatedly (better hope Helio is willing to throw in the towel) in your scenario after just a few years of NHB and certainly in the current era.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I wish they had Volk Han, Andrei Kopylov or Grom Zaza in the tournament

 

[Pierced7681]

LOL, I can't tell if you're still programmed by 1993-4 Gracie propaganda that most of us saw through within a couple of years...or are trolling. I sure hope it's the latter. The Gracies get KO'd repeatedly (better hope Helio is willing to throw in the towel) in your scenario after just a few years of NHB and certainly in the current era.

You seriously are going to sit here and shit on Rickson’s legacy? That he built through blood sweat and tears as the GJJ family champion? The mods should delete your account for such blasphemy.