Did the Gracie's ever lose a dojo challenge?

[Kforcer]

Yeah, i mean honestly there wasn't really a way for him to win, right? He did know some moves that were somewhat hooks like the DWL and whatnot, but really, for a wrestler to win a grappling match he has to pin the guy on his back......... right where Rickson was comfortable.


But that would have been something to see! Two of the best ever from there perspective grappling arts meeting up for the first time ever and having a match, just them and a couple other guys in the gym.

Well, Schultz is the only Olympic gold medalist to win his gold while losing a match THAT Olympics; he did a rolling Kimura/DWL on a guy and destroyed his shoulder, got DQ'd but ended up continuing in the tournament. And of course, the Schultz front-headlock, which is a powerful blood choke that has made many an opponent pass out, is legendary.

I wonder how Adam Fadzaev would've done, he's an expert at applying that front headlock hoke.

 

[Kforcer]

Bobby Douglas, whose grandfather was a catch-wrestler in the coal-miner circuit and who was the first to teach the legendary Iowa State coach and Olympian how to wrestle, would've made for an interesting Gracie challenge as well. Paul Prehn, if he'd taught any of his collegiate wrestlers all those submissions of his--and he was an extremely well-versed submission artist--that also would've been interesting.

This is off the subject, but I wonder if Prehn, who was around for the elimination of submissions from amateur wrestling with the advent of modern scholastic-style, taught any of his wrestlers submission holds. A guy like Prehn, who was a legendary collegiate coach as well as a submissions expert, makes one wish that submission-wrestling had a legitimate competitive outlet during the days of his tenure as a wrestling coach. A guy with such knowledge could've really bred some sub-wrestling beasts, I bet.

 

[Kforcer]

Oh, btw, Euclydes Hatem beat George Gracie and Euclides Perreira beat Carlson Gracie. Of course, those were simply MMA matches, not 'dojo challenges.'

 

[Bullheaded]

Damien refused to give him a rematch and asked for Royce or Rickson instead.
So Robin (and Royce) went to Damien's place of work (which is a nigthclub) and forced Damien for a rematch by beating the shit out of him.

Really? Royce bashed a pro mma fighter in a nightclub and this is the first im hearing of it - wouldnt surprise me to see Gracies flipping out at a loss but this seems like a sewing circle chinese whispers thing to me. Got a source?

I heard about that one back in France too. A lot of old school guys lost a ton of respect for the gracies afterward.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Oh, btw, Euclydes Hatem beat George Gracie and Euclides Perreira beat Carlson Gracie. Of course, those were simply MMA matches, not 'dojo challenges.'

Yeah i was thinking of bringing these up also! But as you said they were not really Dojo storms per say as much as they were set up fights.

 

[nefti]

Oh, btw, Euclydes Hatem beat George Gracie and Euclides Perreira beat Carlson Gracie. Of course, those were simply MMA matches, not 'dojo challenges.'

he was also a gracie black belt

 

[Title Fight Productions]

he was also a gracie black belt

both?

 

[largemansmay***]

That wasn't the Gracie Challenge though, that was a Sambo match.

And to be totally fair, it wasn't a technicality, Rickson got thrown. Supposedly he landed with Tripp in and armbar (how that happens off an Uchimata I have no idea) but under the rules of Sambo and Judo, that's the end of the match. I know it's frustrating from a BJJ or sub grappling perspective where the idea of losing off a single takedown is a foreign concept, but under the rules of Sambo it's a clean win.

Robin Gracie lost a challenge match, but I see someone has already posted that.

My sambo/judo instructor told me he was at this match and said that the whole "landing in an armbar" was complete BS and that Rickson got thrown, knew that he lost, and was very humble about the whole thing. He said it was only afterwards that they made up all sorts of things about Rickson not knowing the rules, Tripp landing in an armbar, etc.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

My sambo/judo instructor told me he was at this match and said that the whole "landing in an armbar" was complete BS and that Rickson got thrown, knew that he lost, and was very humble about the whole thing. He said it was only afterwards that they made up all sorts of things about Rickson not knowing the rules, Tripp landing in an armbar, etc.

Yeah i was gonna ask for a source on the whole "landing in an armbar" deal. I haven't ever really heard that one before and it sounds like a bit of "B.S.".

 

[Graciebarra 847]

I always wondered why the Gracie's dojo challenge a strong division 1 wrestling team.

 

[Howsitfeel]

Does Helio vs Kimura count?

IT Should

 

[Title Fight Productions]

We also need to remember the lack of technology of the time. You couldn't just hit up someone's twitter account to challenge them.:icon_neut

 

[Amae Koromo]

Frankly, the Gracie dojo invasions were a very good thing for martial arts, even if they did that mostly for marketing reasons.

 

[Jaxx]

Frankly, the Gracie dojo invasions were a very good thing for martial arts, even if they did that mostly for marketing reasons.

They were a good thing for Grappling not martial arts.

Been said before a million times....the Gracies never challenged the Kodokan, Sambo schools like Sambo 70 or top level Catch in Japan in Shooto/Pancrase. Much easier to beat up strikers who do not know anything of ground fighting or 'recreational' grapplers that are simply not on the same level.

In fact Japanese Pro Wrestlers challenged the Gracies first, Yoji Anjo ended up getting a beating from Rickson in LA. This in turn, lead to Sakuraba fighting, and beating all the Gracies that challenged him...

 

[Amae Koromo]

They were a good thing for Grappling not martial arts.

Been said before a million times....the Gracies never challenged the Kodokan, Sambo schools like Sambo 70 or top level Catch in Japan in Shooto/Pancrase. Much easier to beat up strikers who do not know anything of ground fighting or 'recreational' grapplers that are simply not on the same level.

In fact Japanese Pro Wrestlers challenged the Gracies first, Yoji Anjo ended up getting a beating from Rickson in LA. This in turn, lead to Sakuraba fighting, and beating all the Gracies that challenged him...

It was very good for martial arts in general. There were (and there still are) too many charlatans. Beating up non-legit people (and creating a culture of doing so) was a service to the public.

Judo, sambo, catch wrestling guys, etc are legit. As are kickboxers.
Picking up a fight with them is not that much of a service to the public.

 

[Turtleguard]

You guys think sambo dudes would beat the gracies in a fight at that time? Wouldn't the gracies just position fark them?

 

[peytonlucy]

Maybe to another BJJ guy, but I don't think they lost to another style in a challenge or garage match. Obviously Rickson lost on a technicallity or point to Tripp in Sambo.

I'm not an expert on Sambo; heck I'm not even competent in Sambo. I was told by Tripp's "brother"/cousin that Rickson lost on a major throw, which is a win in Sambo. Apparently they stop the match because the loser has been tossed and is wide-open for a kick to the head as he is prone.

 

[peytonlucy]

This is something like did any second rate high school wrestler ever challenge Dan Gable to a match and beat him.

 

[Mr. Sandman]

The Gracies would've ended up tapping all of them... But does it really mean they're superior?..

 

[Kforcer]

both?

Perreira, although, I don't think he was a blackbelt back then. In fact, I'm certain of it. He got his blackbelt much later on.