Did the Gracie's ever lose a dojo challenge?

Sakuraba & Matt Hughes would've done the Gracie challenge, and beat on Royce, if the Gracies made it a live PPV event and paid more than Pride or UFC.

Great....... but Royce wasn't the family champ, wasn't #1, #2, #3, etc. Just happened to be the slightly built kid that was around when Rorion caught Rickson teaching out of his garage just before UFC 1.:icon_neut

The Gracies were great about matching up there challenges legit. Meaning they would give the younger/weaker guys challenges with less skilled challengers to get them experience.
 
Damien refused to give him a rematch and asked for Royce or Rickson instead.
So Robin (and Royce) went to Damien's place of work (which is a nigthclub) and forced Damien for a rematch by beating the shit out of him.

Really? Royce bashed a pro mma fighter in a nightclub and this is the first im hearing of it - wouldnt surprise me to see Gracies flipping out at a loss but this seems like a sewing circle chinese whispers thing to me. Got a source?

actually, Robin was busy smashing Damien while Royce smashed Damien brother who intervened.

all according to Damien story.
 
"Did the Gracie's ever lose a dojo challenge?"


I would doubt it, it seems like they always challenged people they knew they could beat. The strip mall karate dojo with a sensei that knew nothing of the ground. Remember, they wanted to "sell GJJ", and they knew "us" in the US thought the black belts in karate could disarm and kill 5 attackers at once. Sensei Jeff never stood a chance, and it sold GJJ.

You'd never see them dojo storming the wrestling room at the U of Iowa.
 
"Did the Gracie's ever lose a dojo challenge?"


I would doubt it, it seems like they always challenged people they knew they could beat. The strip mall karate dojo with a sensei that knew nothing of the ground. Remember, they wanted to "sell GJJ", and they knew "us" in the US thought the black belts in karate could disarm and kill 5 attackers at once. Sensei Jeff never stood a chance, and it sold GJJ.

You'd never see them dojo storming the wrestling room at the U of Iowa.

You should educate yourself a little more on the subject............

Here is Mark Schultz (not of the U or Iowa:icon_lol:) but of Oklahoma University where he spent 3 years from 1981 through 1983 winning 3 NCAA Championships. Mark was named the NCAA Outstanding Wrestler his junior year for defeating everyone in his weight class which included NCAA Champion Matt Reiss and 2-time NCAA Champion Ed Banach. Schultz was the NCAA Champion his sophomore year at 167 lbs but moved up a weight to challenge Banach who was on course to become the first man ever to win 4 NCAA titles. Schultz defeated him 16-8. The next year Schultz went undefeated and set the Oklahoma University record for most victories without a loss in a single season. In 1984 Mark and Dave Schultz both won Olympic Gold. Dave Schultz is the only 1984 Olympic Champion to win the 1983 World Championships and Mark is the only 1984 Olympic Champion to win the 1985 World Championships. Mark became the first Olympic Champion to add 2 additional World Titles in 1987 tying the U.S. record for World Golds with Lee Kemp. In 1996 after 8 years in retirement Mark made a comeback and competed in UFC 9 and won.

And this is what he has to say about the subject......

"Hello everyone. A lot of you have wondered how I got into submission grappling. Well one day I got this call from some guy who said "the best Jiu-Jitsu fighter in the world is in town, do you want to fight him?" I said "what are the rules?" The guy tried to intimidate me by saying "There are no rules!" I didn't know what to think. Were we going to gouge each others eyes out or bite each other's throats out. Thinking it might end in disability or even death for one of them, I said "O.K., tell him to meet me in the BYU wrestling room a week from Thursday". When the day arrived, I walked into the BYU wrestling room and saw a latino looking guy with the front of his head shaved and the back of his head he had a long braided pony tail. He looked like the muay thai guy in "Kumite". He was sitting on his butt scooting into BYU Head Coach Alan Albright, trying to hook Alan's feet with his feet. Alan just kept pushing him away. So I walk in and he comes over and says "Are you the guy". I said "yep". Then he said, unlike the caller who said it was "no rules", "What I do is punch, elbow, knee, head butt, but we're not going to do that today. We'll just roll around and try to get each other in submission holds, and if one of us gets caught, we tap out". Relieved there wasn't going to be a homicide that day, I still didn't know any submission holds and I spent a lot of energy trying to invent new moves on the spot. After about about 20 minutes of me being on top of him while he either had me in the guard or I had him in a cradle, I tapped out from a triangle choke. I asked him to go again and he tapped me out again after about another 20 minutes. I was stunned. All the years of training and I had never learned these moves. Lucky for me, I picked wrestling as my sport so the transition would only require learning some new positions and moves from those positions. The mat sense and conditioning would be the same and wrestling takedowns were better. I asked him his name and he said "Rickson Gracie", who was perhaps the most skilled Jiu-Jitsu expert in the world. There was also a student of Rickson's in the wrestling room that day named Pedro Sauer.
 
The Luta Livre guys back in Brasil were no chump as well.
 
They turned down fighting Benny the Jet when they found out he was being trained by Gene Lebell.
 
Sakuraba & Matt Hughes would've done the Gracie challenge, and beat on Royce, if the Gracies made it a live PPV event and paid more than Pride or UFC.

Would they have? Royce went out of his way to fight both of those guys as well. I think Sak was far more interested in fighting Rickson, and Hughes was the reigning champ at the time I believe.
 
wow it took him 20 minutes to submit mark schultz. if anything that proves how badass schultz was to survive that long
 
well I meant for someone to never have done submissions, and to get in rickson's guard....LIKE DAMN! 20 minutes!?!? he must have held that cradle for a long ass time

Yeah, i mean honestly there wasn't really a way for him to win, right? He did know some moves that were somewhat hooks like the DWL and whatnot, but really, for a wrestler to win a grappling match he has to pin the guy on his back......... right where Rickson was comfortable.


But that would have been something to see! Two of the best ever from there perspective grappling arts meeting up for the first time ever and having a match, just them and a couple other guys in the gym.:eek:
 
The Schultz match up would have been great to see.

I would have liked to see them walk into the Kodokan and issue a challenge.

Or the Snake Pit in Wigan.

Now those would have created some epic war stories.
 
Yeah, i mean honestly there wasn't really a way for him to win, right? He did know some moves that were somewhat hooks like the DWL and whatnot, but really, for a wrestler to win a grappling match he has to pin the guy on his back......... right where Rickson was comfortable.


But that would have been something to see! Two of the best ever from there perspective grappling arts meeting up for the first time ever and having a match, just them and a couple other guys in the gym.:eek:

please man I want to read more history of bjj! specially the one you said that Rorion got mad because Rickson was teaching outside his garage.
 
The Schultz match up would have been great to see.

The video is out there. It's when Rickson goes to a wrestling team to spar some wrestlers. It has him with Schultz and some other wrestlers who he handles with much greater ease. Naturally they don't show the whole time that he's in the cradle, but they acknowledge it. I'm not sure if they mention who Schultz is.
 
TFP--- Ok i was outta line with the wrestling comment, but most of the Gracie challenges were to prove that our confidence in TMA's was wrong, and TMA's weren't really the best for self defense. Most corner store dojo's didn't spar against fully resisting opponents, and of course didn't know the ground, and the Gracie's knew that. 18 years ago we all found that out.


( I would consider the Kimura match a challenge match, because didn't Helio challenge him, as well as bring a coffin to the ring?)

Rorion just makes thing hard to swalllow, and I know I'm not as educated about BJJ as you (not being sarcastic), but I feel Rorion did make alot up, or at least change history to suit his agenda, Helio being sick and weak growing up as one example. I'm not saying those Gracie in Action movies are set-ups, but the Gracie's knew they would win those matches. Of course their opponents thought they would win too, they just bit off more than they could chew, not knowing the power of BJJ or submissions.
 
I would doubt it, it seems like they always challenged people they knew they could beat.
Would have loved Rickson vs Marco Ruas vale tudo rules fight.
 
"Did the Gracie's ever lose a dojo challenge?"


I would doubt it, it seems like they always challenged people they knew they could beat. The strip mall karate dojo with a sensei that knew nothing of the ground. Remember, they wanted to "sell GJJ", and they knew "us" in the US thought the black belts in karate could disarm and kill 5 attackers at once. Sensei Jeff never stood a chance, and it sold GJJ.

You'd never see them dojo storming the wrestling room at the U of Iowa.

BJJ has proven its worth in MMA, where everyone does it. The dojo storming was a gimmick, and I don't think the Gracies saw it as anything more than that, so it made sense to go after weak clubs. The real test was in MMA, and the results there speak for themselves.
 
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BJJ has proven its worth in MMA, where everyone does it. The dojo storming was a gimmick, and I don't think the Gracies saw it as anything more than that, so it made sense to go after weak clubs. The real test was in MMA, and the results there speak for themselves.

Probably true. But back then, who else was there to challenge? For the most part, it was karate, kung fu, TKD schools and fighters. Those were the martial arts that were most common, prevalent, and most respected. Who else was there? Karate was the most baddass thing in the 1970s and 1980s in America(hyperbole, but you understand what I mean). everybody knew what Karate was in the US. The Gracies, unlike in Brazil where they fought, beat, and lost to Judokas and other fighters to improve their system, now were doing challenge matches in America to prove to people who never heard of it that it worked.
 
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