Delete

[HomeCheese]

It's still too early to say, he's only 28. Bill Walton won a championship in Portland then diminished greatly due to injuries. It's too early to put his career in perspective I think.

 

[PrepareForGlory]

Not in 1994. In 1994 he had 14 points 10 rebounds.


From a statistical perspective those MVPs are the most questionable ones in sports history. If someone averages 50 points a game and doesn't win the award I don't care about the award. Wilt and Oscar were more deserving every single year. Rounding to half a percent Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double 5 years in a row. Wilt scored over 35 points 6 years in a row(with better rebounding numbers than Russell his first 5 years). They have 2 MVPs to show for it. That's a disgrace.

I don't take the NBA MVP that seriously because IMO they get it wrong at least as often as they get it right. MVPs at the end of the day are there to say you were the best player in the league. If a player gets a reward when they clearly weren't that it doesn't have the meaning you want it to have. Jordan and LeBron stans almost never bring up the MVP because there's a quiet understanding the award doesn't go to the best player a lot of the time.

That other stuff is nice but an insane college career and Olympic gold are the expectation for US born star NBA players(provided they went to college or were allowed to play in the Olympics). Kareems college record gets mentioned because he was 88-2.

Russell had 11 rings because his teams had 4 hall of famers every single year except 1966. In 1962 and 1963 he had 5 HOFers(not even counting your Ramseys and KC Jones's either). Championships are a team award. Russell scored 15 points a game for his career. In 12 finals appearences Russell only led his team in scoring twice.

Those MVPs he won were voted on by the players themselves. Which is a good argument for him, the players he actually played against thought he, not Wilt or Oscar, was the clear best player in the league.

It was a more defensive era, with different rules. A defender like Russell, especially before 3's and more shots at the basket, could dominate on defense in ways guys cannot today.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Yoke really shouldn't be pigeon holed as a center. Yoke shoots the three like those goes could only dream of. Yoke passes the ball like those guys can only dream of. Yoke shoots at the line at a different level. Yoke is his own thing. If he plays a lotta years he's just gonna destroy all those guys for VORP and other wholistic measures because that's what Yoke is. His career PER is pretty much better than everyone in the history of the game outside of Jordan and could be going higher over the next few years. He has more different kinds of arrows in his quiver than anyone, and has the brains to know when to fire which. He just hasn't played enough years yet though.

 

[fedja]

I think that he should be. Here is a stat that not many people know - Jokic is a player with highest PER in a single playoff run (golden standard for rating someones offensive game) of all NBA champions ever.

Second place is Jordan in 1991 playoff, third is again Jordan in 1990, than Lebron when he beat GSW...

Higher Per in single playoff had only Hakeem and James, but in years that they didn't win the title.

So, Joker is the best offensive player of all the winners of NBA title (when looking just at that single playoff). Big Honey had THE most dominant offensive playoff run of all time!

 

[fica]

I think that he should be. Here is a stat that not many people know - Jokic is a player with highest PER in a single playoff run (golden standard for rating someones offensive game) of all NBA champions ever.

Second place is Jordan in 1991 playoff, third is again Jordan in 1990, than Lebron when he beat GSW...

Higher Per in single playoff had only Hakeem and James, but in years that they didn't win the title.

So, Joker is the best offensive player of all the winners of NBA title (when looking just at that single playoff). Big Honey had THE most dominant offensive playoff run of all time!

lol does not go with american narrative so they will not talk about it at all. lol

 

[Croaker]

I think that he should be. Here is a stat that not many people know - Jokic is a player with highest PER in a single playoff run (golden standard for rating someones offensive game) of all NBA champions ever.

Second place is Jordan in 1991 playoff, third is again Jordan in 1990, than Lebron when he beat GSW...

Higher Per in single playoff had only Hakeem and James, but in years that they didn't win the title.

So, Joker is the best offensive player of all the winners of NBA title (when looking just at that single playoff). Big Honey had THE most dominant offensive playoff run of all time!

Its not the Gold Standard. Stop huffing analytic nerd content.

 

[PRESIDENT TRUMP]

Lol @ Vagg

 

[fedja]

Its not the Gold Standard. Stop huffing analytic nerd content.

Actually it is widely considered golden standard among stats, and the reason for that is that the best players are constantly the best ranked when looking at their PER index.

Whatever other stat that you look at, often you will have the case where some of the objectively best players are left out of the list.

And that is why there are books written about PER index, what can not be said about other stats.

 

[Revolver]

Lmao @ per being the gold standard. Lmao hard at this hollinger Stan.

 

[fica]

Lmao @ per being the gold standard. Lmao hard at this hollinger Stan.

let me guess now gold standards in basketball who can jump higher because of that jokic is not best player lol americans and their bs

 

[Revolver]

let me guess now gold standards in basketball who can jump higher because of that jokic is not best player lol americans and their bs

Didn’t say that but PER is not the gold standard that you think it is. Do you even know how to calculate per? Maybe get an understanding of this analshitic before spouting it like it’s not crap.

 

[Croaker]

Actually it is widely considered golden standard among stats, and the reason for that is that the best players are constantly the best ranked when looking at their PER index.

Whatever other stat that you look at, often you will have the case where some of the objectively best players are left out of the list.

And that is why there are books written about PER index, what can not be said about other stats.

No, it's not.

 

[fedja]

Didn’t say that but PER is not the gold standard that you think it is. Do you even know how to calculate per? Maybe get an understanding of this analshitic before spouting it like it’s not crap.

Ok, so please tell, what stat is better in measuring offensive impact?? I guarantee (in Chuck's voice) you won't find any!

And while you are at it, google PER and it's importance in advance analytics.

 

[Croaker]

Ok, so please tell, what stat is better in measuring offensive impact?? I guarantee (in Chuck's voice) you won't find any!

And while you are at it, google PER and it's importance in advance analytics.

I'll do you one better, PER doesn't attribute surrounding cast, opposition, or off ball play. All of which contribute to PER But the number is distilled into on ball metrics. It's fucking dumb. There is always multiple pieces coming together to make the stats going into PER work. Those players aren't getting metrics for them. Add in how the Nuggets use their rotations due to poor coaching, Joker's numbers are inflated.

The guy is my avatar, opens up cutting lanes for Zion to thrive. There is a distinct difference in how Zion is used with and without Ingram on the floor. PER doesn't tell you that.

None of this is to say Joker is a bad player, or isn't the best center in the league. It's just showing you that PER isn't a gold standard. If you want play analytics watch baseball. It's stagnant.

 

[Revolver]

Ok, so please tell, what stat is better in measuring offensive impact?? I guarantee (in Chuck's voice) you won't find any!

And while you are at it, google PER and its importance in advance analytics.

Hey John Hollinger this isn’t the early 2000’s anymore. Lmao.

 

[Croaker]

Just looked at PER for careers and Rasheed Wallace and RIP Hamilton aren't in the top 200.

Just goes to show how stupid of a metric it is, two guys who thrived off ball and contributed to winning for their careers. More so than guys like Pete Marovich or top 20 Charles Barkley and top 30 PER Yao fucking Ming.

 

[StonedLemur]

Lol at bill rustle. He wouldn’t even win a ship in my rec league.

Lol ok.

 

[fedja]

Just looked at PER for careers and Rasheed Wallace and RIP Hamilton aren't in the top 200.

Just goes to show how stupid of a metric it is, two guys who thrived off ball and contributed to winning for their careers. More so than guys like Pete Marovich or top 20 Charles Barkley and top 30 PER Yao fucking Ming.

Well maybe just look at their prime years, not carrier average, god damn... That will represent different picture.

 

[Croaker]

Well maybe just look at their prime years, not carrier average, god damn... That will represent different picture.

Sorry, PER takes minute by minute into account. Can't paint a different picture if we're using the "gold standard" of metrics.

 

[fedja]

Hey John Hollinger this isn’t the early 2000’s anymore. Lmao.

So you can't name any stat that is better, but still want to argue...?