Defending the lead hook + cross combo

[crossFTW]

After watching Frotch vs Groves 2, it kinda reminded me of how effective that lead hook + cross combo is. The lead hook comes from the side and the cross right down the middle which is why it is so effective against the 'hands up' defense. I seem to get caught by this punch a lot and it also is very effective for me too when I use it.

edit: Ill also add that I'm struggling with defending the cross after blocking the hook because it spreads my arms out wide and leave a huge hole right down the middle.

How do we deal with this combo in a Muay Thai context where the hands up defence is used more commonly?

 

[AcumenAthletics]

If your sparring partner catches you clean with the combo 1x chances are he'll throw it again. There's so many solutions to this but 1st to come to my mind is a simple teep
(to his/her body, hip or thigh) when he steps in for the hook (at the least it'll take some power away from his/her punch).

If you block the hook but getting tagged with the cross, you can work parrying their cross, slight slipping or stuffing (hand control or long guard defense).

I know you asked for MT but this video might give you some more insights.

[YT]rZDWCQivaFU?t=8m15s[/YT]

 

[a guy]

This is such an interesting thread but it got no responses.

Part of the problem in that fight was Groves tried to block and counter with his own hook, so he squared his shoulders more than is ideal. If you're going to insist on using that block, don't make the movement as big. You'll have more time to turn back and block (or shoulder roll) if the twist of your upper body is minimal. You can also bend your knees and slip that cross if you move too far and won't have time to block it.

If you can avoid blocking the hook like that at all though you'll be better off. You can duck it, step in and clinch, take away his jab and also threaten with the right hand so he isn't comfortable leading with a hook, stay out of range, etc.

 

[apizur**]

Aye, I didn't see the fight and I'm not a MT guy. Otherwise you know I'm about that post count.

 

[fluffball]

For MT, I like to use more parrying type defenses. Jam the hook and then use the inside of your left forearm to deflect the right hand. That sort of naturally puts you on the right side of your opponent (or left from your perspective), it flows right in to cutting the angle. You could throw a stepping right hand of your own, almost like a reverse Pacquiao punch.

 

[Kickzilla]

The vid Acumen posted is pretty good. Those boxing fundamentals (even high guard) still apply to muay thai.

Earlier poster mentioned teeping that is sound advice in MT as well. If you're worried you'll get jammed up or stalled while blocking and teeping, don't, just work on it. But the long guard is especially useful for setting up counter kicks off of aggression too. (extend your lead arm and cover with your rear arm).

In the long guard you can just as safely teep or throw a body kick. You can include a step back with the rear leg (without the lead leg trailing), or just a conventional back step with the long guard to create some space.

 

[DoctorTaco]

For MT, I like to use more parrying type defenses. Jam the hook and then use the inside of your left forearm to deflect the right hand. That sort of naturally puts you on the right side of your opponent (or left from your perspective), it flows right in to cutting the angle. You could throw a stepping right hand of your own, almost like a reverse Pacquiao punch.

A great way to go. I'm smaller than most my sparring partners, so rather than jamming against the hook I prefer to roll with the punch as I brush block. This sets me me offline enough so the cross is easy to slip, and then my hips/shoulders are loaded for a counter punch of my own.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Patricio Freire in Bellator has been destroying people with this combination for a while.

 

[crossFTW]

Thanks for the responses guys, there are a lot of great ideas.
I'll try em all out when I get a chance, also great point A Guy about not squaring up too much with the left hook, I think that is definitely an issue for me.

 

[Discipulus]

I don't think the issue is that Groves squared up to block the hook. You're supposed to turn your body to block a hook, bringing the arm and shoulder into the path of the punch.

Groves' problem was that he stayed there after the hook landed. He was overconfident by that point in the bout, or else just not in good enough condition to keep his shit together after getting pressured and worn down by Froch a bit. After blocking the hook, he takes a look at Froch and decides to counter with a hook of his own, well after Froch has already started to throw the big right.

He could have slipped outside the right hand from the position he was in, or rolled to his right, or blocked with his left arm, but he was confident that his punch would get there before big, slow Carl Froch's did, and he was wrong.

This is basically a perfect example of why combinations exist. You might react perfectly to the first punch, but the more punches I tack on after that, the more likely you are to slip up and make a mistake. Groves' counter would have been perfect if Froch had only been throwing a one-off hook, but it was the worst thing he could have done in the case of a second punch.

 

[crossFTW]

I don't think he saw the punch coming or until very late, it was like lightning in real time.
But yeah, throwing that counter hook was not a very good move at all, defense should be the priority especially against a big puncher.