Defending the Cross - help

[Tim Bob]

this could be part of the issue, you’ve got this backwards. Block the jab and then step-slip the cross to get inside.
As a rule I generally like my boxers to parrie or block the first straight punch in series and then work head movement off of it. It generally helps them keep good positioning as shots come down the field at them

Gotcha that makes sense thank you

 

[Tim Bob]

How mean is your left hook? And is your style highly risk-aversive? You can try using the strategy of overloading his defensive responsibility by placing your left hooks properly. One very useful way to get inside is by timing their jab or stiff arm with a right hand to their floating ribs with as much power as you can without losing your balance while slipping your head to the inside. This has two purposes. One it will redirect their attention to that quadrant of their body and may narrow their focus to the point where the follow up shot can land blindly. The second purpose is it will properly position you for a leveraged short left hook due to the weight shift to your left leg. A bonus would be landing perfectly on the floating rib and breaking it.

Here is a timestamped video of Thurman setting that left hook up properly where it stuns Garcia. Then the following shot rocked him even further.


Joe Louis made use of this combination as well to make way for his vaunted short left hook.

If you do use a high guard, studying the way Johnny Gonzalez knocked down Mares by using a throwaway jab as another poster mentioned in the thread followed by an exaggerated trajectory on the left hook may be rather useful if your opponent uses his right hand consistently to parry. This may nullify his hard cross by occupying it for defense.

Another approach that you can study that has a conglomeration of subtleties that you may add to your own style is Marlon Starling's first fight vs Mark Breland. Breland was an Olympic gold medalist with the right cross dominant Kronk style while Starling was much shorter but possessed a vast array of defensive tactics that enabled him to dismantle Breland.


As other posters have mentioned already, Tim Witherspoon is an incredible source for boxing knowledge and is on the forum. His particular defensive guard enabled him to use his own right hand to catch the other opponents right cross. Combined with this was that whipping over hand right off his cross guard that was very efficient in range vs taller opponents.

Wow I really like that.
I can see myself pulling that off.
I would say Im one of those guys where my hook is stronger than my cross. But i also hit very hard 6's because I drop by body weight on them and have drilled them so long that Im very comfortable throwing them. You good sir may have found my combo.
Thanks alot

 

[mozfonky]

I will definitely check ou



Those were the days when the welterweights fought each other no matter the cost! I love going back and watching hearns/hagler, leonard, duran, that era was blessing.
Circling the the left is just so much easier because as you jab you jab you're body naturally goes that way. So yes my trainer has had me work on different ways of getting past the jab as well. Sometimes I like to step in with my lead leg as im ducking then crowd the taller opponent ( i think mayweather and others would do this) or i will slip a couple jabs then on the third one I will basically fall to my right foot and use that angle ( I saw this in russian school of boxing)
I can also use the "needle" lol which is what they coined the low body jab after floyd used it 100 times to a taller opponent earlier in his career im forgetting the opponent, he was a tall guy.
Do you think if hearns didnt waste his gas tank that fight would have turned out any different against hagler?

No, I don't. Hearns just did not have great stamina, didn't have a great chin and the main thing was, Hagler cut off the ring so easily when Hearns moved. People remember that fight differently than it was, after the middle of the first round, hearns stopped being the aggressor, by the second he was moving on his bicycle as much as he could. Hagler would have gotten him that night under any circumstances. When people say Ray fought him right, I'll always believe that Ray got into haglers head and he never really tried to do that to ray. Tommy was a fine boxer and was good enough to outbox ray for most of their epic first fight, so I don't think ray did anything special outside of getting in Hagler's head. Ray said that tommy "must be sick" seeing how his strategy worked when tommy's didn't but as I mentioned, tommy tried and couldn't do it. Yes, I know he was exhausted and that slowed him down but he would have gotten exhausted just the same and he wouldn't be able to keep Marvin off of him.

circling left is easier and more natural but the trainers would tell you not to. It's weird how fighters do their circling, Michael Moorer kept circling into Big George's right hand and he's a southpaw, only he could tell you why. And Ali had a helluva time with Karl Mildenberger who was a southpaw, Ali was criticized for always circling left by the boxing pundits, well, he didn't do that in the Mildenberger fight, he went to his right. Angie was apparently very pissed about it afterwards but Ali wasn't just being stubborn as I thought he was, he said in some interview that he believed he could line up his own right hand better going right which he eventually did but it was one of his tougher defenses in his first title era.

 

[zumbulare]

I feel that right cross is easiest punch to avoid, as long as you are not squared up, with weight on your front foot. Changing levels agains taller opponents helps, head faints and bending down slightly. You want then to fight tall, meaning punching down at you instead of punching straight at you. It lines them up for overhand.

 

[Tim Bob]

I feel that right cross is easiest punch to avoid, as long as you are not squared up, with weight on your front foot. Changing levels agains taller opponents helps, head faints and bending down slightly. You want then to fight tall, meaning punching down at you instead of punching straight at you. It lines them up for overhand.

you're probably right. My opponent hits so hard its just you cant afford to take one on the chin, but that 2 is really all he has. And if i can see a punch coming and for some reason dont have time to move/block, I have a pretty strong neck from all the years of wrestling so I can take it pretty well by like tightening up my shoulder, neck, etc.

Since I do both kickboxing and boxing it is much harder imo to fight a taller guy in kickboxing because you are more squared up. You cant change levels too often because you dont want to get kneed or kicked in the head. so fighting a taller guy involves alot of angles and footwork, low kicks, body jabs, etc, but your are still trying to get inside to land say an overhand right in my case. Its the same idea you want to be powerful where they cant be its just a few different approaches on getting inside.

I dont understand what you mean by fighting tall but then having the opponent punch down at you?

Are you saying dont be on the front foot because you'd basically have no where to slip too? i see alot of fighters who do fight off the front foot but alot of times there doin that to bait so they can counter.


A good example of avoiding the right hand was the Wilder Fury trilogy.
In the first fight Fury would duck his head down to the right as the punch came which is not conventional (the punch would go over his back/ back of head). Maybe thats how he got hurt because if you follow that up with a left hook as the person comes back up you can clip them and thats what might have happened.
In the 2nd and 3rd fight it was much more about distance management than head movement. Since wilder telegraphs the punch so much Furry was able to back out of range or atleast get an arm in the air.
2 different approaches but also depends on the opponent which style would be more benefical probably.

 

[Tim Bob]

No, I don't. Hearns just did not have great stamina, didn't have a great chin and the main thing was, Hagler cut off the ring so easily when Hearns moved. People remember that fight differently than it was, after the middle of the first round, hearns stopped being the aggressor, by the second he was moving on his bicycle as much as he could. Hagler would have gotten him that night under any circumstances. When people say Ray fought him right, I'll always believe that Ray got into haglers head and he never really tried to do that to ray. Tommy was a fine boxer and was good enough to outbox ray for most of their epic first fight, so I don't think ray did anything special outside of getting in Hagler's head. Ray said that tommy "must be sick" seeing how his strategy worked when tommy's didn't but as I mentioned, tommy tried and couldn't do it. Yes, I know he was exhausted and that slowed him down but he would have gotten exhausted just the same and he wouldn't be able to keep Marvin off of him.

circling left is easier and more natural but the trainers would tell you not to. It's weird how fighters do their circling, Michael Moorer kept circling into Big George's right hand and he's a southpaw, only he could tell you why. And Ali had a helluva time with Karl Mildenberger who was a southpaw, Ali was criticized for always circling left by the boxing pundits, well, he didn't do that in the Mildenberger fight, he went to his right. Angie was apparently very pissed about it afterwards but Ali wasn't just being stubborn as I thought he was, he said in some interview that he believed he could line up his own right hand better going right which he eventually did but it was one of his tougher defenses in his first title era.

Wow you really know this era! I also remember hagler didnt switch like other fighters, he let the other fighter dictate which stance he would go in which was killer, probably the best switch hitter of all time.
Ali had a very cool way to circling to the left. He would jab jab jab then cross his back foot further than his front, jump with it, then come down and pop his 2 in there. Yea your not supposed to cross your feet but in this case it worked and its fun to do on the bag.
Idk i guess the idea is if you can keep a guy's cross occupied with other things then he doesn't have the time to load the cross up. In kickboxing we do this by headkicking the right side of the head so the person has so keep their arm blocking or else they're taking a nap.
To me its weird how styles make match ups because Tommy did so well against ray ( i think it was a draw) and then ray beat hagler by split decision I believe, but hagler annhilates tommy. what an exciting time that was.

These days I am very excited about 135 pounds and 147 pounds. So welterweight again is doing really well along with LW.

135 - I still think Loma is one of the best but he is battling the clock. He is small and could go back down but he already accomplished that plus shakur stevenson at 130 is really good. When he fought teo he came on too late and only had one good arm supposedly. I think Teofimo should have beat Kambosos but had a horrible game plan, bad coaching, etc. I mean the guy is bigger, stronger, faster. I saw a great breakdown that showed teo on the pads and he is very predictable. He does the jack dempsey step into everything. So if your Kambosos, once you see his back foot come foreward to his stance he's ready, then once he initiates his front foot forward all George had to do was time that step. Timing beat speed. As soon as Teo's motion started coming forward you punch with him, or very often, cought him.
Tank Davis is a powerhouse and hits like a welterweight probably.
Devin Haney has a good jab but he doesn't move his head much.
Ryan garcia doesnt impress me. when he has people in trouble he starts throwing bombs with his chin straight up in the air and he got caught his last fight. A more season fighter might have knocked him out.
Also got Commey whos tough as nails
and Linares who is getting older but is always a good fight. He did put loma on his ass. He is also very tough.

147.
We all know the fight that must happen. Was it like this back in the day with hagler, hearns, etc. because spence should be fighting crawford and theres so much bullshit crawford will be 35 soon and I want to see both fighters at their peak.
I personally favor crawford i love how smart he is as the fight goes on he finds the weaknesses then exploits them. However i am worried spence is bigger than he is. You can just look at errol spences picture and see he's definitely bigger than terrance crawford. It funny how divided people are on youtube videos about this fight they really dig in to each other with vitriol.
I think it sadly might go all 12 decision for errol. Hed use his bigger frame, stay behind that jab, and we know crawford will lose a couple rounds in the beginning as he feels him out. But if he cant put him away like he just did to porter he may lose on points.
Theres also Vergil Ortiz with that mexican style who hits very hard -( today's Duran lol)
Then theres "Boots" Jaron Ennis who is extremely athletic and very good. Its like when Roy Jones came in it would have been awesome if he was there sooner to fight the 4 kings, well this boots guy has that atleticism that is amazing.

Both those divisions are awesome right now. Enough with all the promotional bullshit i want to see the best fight the best!

 

[zumbulare]

you're probably right. My opponent hits so hard its just you cant afford to take one on the chin, but that 2 is really all he has. And if i can see a punch coming and for some reason dont have time to move/block, I have a pretty strong neck from all the years of wrestling so I can take it pretty well by like tightening up my shoulder, neck, etc.

Since I do both kickboxing and boxing it is much harder imo to fight a taller guy in kickboxing because you are more squared up. You cant change levels too often because you dont want to get kneed or kicked in the head. so fighting a taller guy involves alot of angles and footwork, low kicks, body jabs, etc, but your are still trying to get inside to land say an overhand right in my case. Its the same idea you want to be powerful where they cant be its just a few different approaches on getting inside.

I dont understand what you mean by fighting tall but then having the opponent punch down at you?

Are you saying dont be on the front foot because you'd basically have no where to slip too? i see alot of fighters who do fight off the front foot but alot of times there doin that to bait so they can counter.


A good example of avoiding the right hand was the Wilder Fury trilogy.
In the first fight Fury would duck his head down to the right as the punch came which is not conventional (the punch would go over his back/ back of head). Maybe thats how he got hurt because if you follow that up with a left hook as the person comes back up you can clip them and thats what might have happened.
In the 2nd and 3rd fight it was much more about distance management than head movement. Since wilder telegraphs the punch so much Furry was able to back out of range or atleast get an arm in the air.
2 different approaches but also depends on the opponent which style would be more benefical probably.

when i said fighting tall i was talking about your opponent. if you change levels and he has to punch down at angle, his reach is getting shorter. if your face is in line with his shoulder then you are in line of
fire and he will have perfect reach advantage. if you move your head in lower position below his shoulder now he is punching down at angle, shortening his punches and leaving his face exposed for your overhand right.

 

[aries]

Right Cross Defense

sup everybody,

Im looking for anything special or out of the ordinary when it comes to defending against the cross (closed stance)
My next opponent has like 6 inches on me and reminds me of Kovalev where he has a hard right had but not much more.
Of course I got my slip to my left, bring my elbow up or I call it combing my hair, move back out of range, parry (although with a hard punch i feel this is not the best route), or slip to the inside since he's not too dangerous with his left hand.

If anyone knows or has links to good footwork drills, counters, different types of defense, etc. please don't hesitate to help out.

Cheers

I haven't seen anyone mention it yet but my favourite counter for taller fighters throwing the cross was the body jab. It's really simple to time, just punch with them and as long as you throw it correctly like Mayweather with a dip at the waist you go right underneath them. You need to step as well to get the range. Like anything you can't keep going to the well because they'll adjust and drop the right hand down on your head but it's very effective, easy to get decent with and you can follow up with further shots. It doesn't look much but if you get them in the solar plexus it will make them hesitant to throw the cross.

 

[Tim Bob]

when i said fighting tall i was talking about your opponent. if you change levels and he has to punch down at angle, his reach is getting shorter. if your face is in line with his shoulder then you are in line of
fire and he will have perfect reach advantage. if you move your head in lower position below his shoulder now he is punching down at angle, shortening his punches and leaving his face exposed for your overhand right.

Gotcha thank you very much that makes sense

 

[Tim Bob]

I haven't seen anyone mention it yet but my favourite counter for taller fighters throwing the cross was the body jab. It's really simple to time, just punch with them and as long as you throw it correctly like Mayweather with a dip at the waist you go right underneath them. You need to step as well to get the range. Like anything you can't keep going to the well because they'll adjust and drop the right hand down on your head but it's very effective, easy to get decent with and you can follow up with further shots. It doesn't look much but if you get them in the solar plexus it will make them hesitant to throw the cross.

Hey thanks for highlighting that. I think we mentioned it earlier but there was a lot of other stuff. Isn’t this what Floyd did to Diego Corrales and they coined it “the needle” as he kept jabbing him to the stomach and Diego was tall for the division.

 

[aries]

Hey thanks for highlighting that. I think we mentioned it earlier but there was a lot of other stuff. Isn’t this what Floyd did to Diego Corrales and they coined it “the needle” as he kept jabbing him to the stomach and Diego was tall for the division.

No problem. Yeah the Corrales/Mayweather fight was a perfect example of it.

 

[Seano]

 

[Tim Witherspoon]

Right Cross Defense

sup everybody,

Im looking for anything special or out of the ordinary when it comes to defending against the cross (closed stance)
My next opponent has like 6 inches on me and reminds me of Kovalev where he has a hard right had but not much more.
Of course I got my slip to my left, bring my elbow up or I call it combing my hair, move back out of range, parry (although with a hard punch i feel this is not the best route), or slip to the inside since he's not too dangerous with his left hand.

If anyone knows or has links to good footwork drills, counters, different types of defense, etc. please don't hesitate to help out.

Cheers

Lets get something together I will help you. Hmmm do you have any sparring and bag work videos? I can do a breakdown

 

[Tim Bob]

Lets get something together I will help you. Hmmm do you have any sparring and bag work videos? I can do a breakdown

No I don’t I will try to film some soon. I noticed when I slip and do a small step to my right with my back foot I’m able to take the angle even faster, or pendulum into the southpaw position and land the 7, 3, and 2 over the top - all the while the opponent cannot see my back foot as he’s looking at my shoulders primarily and it gives me a huge head start on being able to move from the slipped position. I also sometimes just step in with my front foot and smother the opponent if im tired, late, etc.
where can I follow you it seems like everyone on here is requesting a breakdown from you im sorry im not familiar with your work?
Thank you

 

[PHATV]

No I don’t I will try to film some soon. I noticed when I slip and do a small step to my right with my back foot I’m able to take the angle even faster, or pendulum into the southpaw position and land the 7, 3, and 2 over the top - all the while the opponent cannot see my back foot as he’s looking at my shoulders primarily and it gives me a huge head start on being able to move from the slipped position. I also sometimes just step in with my front foot and smother the opponent if im tired, late, etc.
where can I follow you it seems like everyone on here is requesting a breakdown from you im sorry im not familiar with your work?
Thank you

lol

From US, but uses "cheers" at the end of OP?
Hmm...

That seems like trolling, but just in case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Witherspoon

 

[deucesarewild]

Right Cross Defense

sup everybody,

Im looking for anything special or out of the ordinary when it comes to defending against the cross (closed stance)
My next opponent has like 6 inches on me and reminds me of Kovalev where he has a hard right had but not much more.
Of course I got my slip to my left, bring my elbow up or I call it combing my hair, move back out of range, parry (although with a hard punch i feel this is not the best route), or slip to the inside since he's not too dangerous with his left hand.

If anyone knows or has links to good footwork drills, counters, different types of defense, etc. please don't hesitate to help out.

Cheers

When you feel in range, move to your right. Turn him. He'll have to reset. As he turns, use your jab. Double it, and/or put your own right behind it.

Does he lead with it? Get st the edge of range and draw it, then step back and throw your left.

The right hand has to travel, and most fighters who know they have a punch are actively looking to land it.

Does he "bow and arrow" before throwing his right? Use your left hook head or body and move to the side.

Any guy with a good right hand, I found that a responsible jab and regular movement kept him from landing it (assuming we altered within similar realms of skill/experience).

Movement > blocking, but keep your gloves up (don't drop your jab hand).

 

[Tim Bob]

lol

From US, but uses "cheers" at the end of OP?
Hmm...

That seems like trolling, but just in case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Witherspoon

I have british friends. Sometimes it wears off on me. Just like my family in texas influences some of what I say. I didn't even notice it, its not like Im writing an email to a colleague.

lol

From US, but uses "cheers" at the end of OP?
Hmm...

That seems like trolling, but just in case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Witherspoon

 

[Cariñito]

Wow you really know this era! I also remember hagler didnt switch like other fighters, he let the other fighter dictate which stance he would go in which was killer, probably the best switch hitter of all time.
Ali had a very cool way to circling to the left. He would jab jab jab then cross his back foot further than his front, jump with it, then come down and pop his 2 in there. Yea your not supposed to cross your feet but in this case it worked and its fun to do on the bag.
Idk i guess the idea is if you can keep a guy's cross occupied with other things then he doesn't have the time to load the cross up. In kickboxing we do this by headkicking the right side of the head so the person has so keep their arm blocking or else they're taking a nap.
To me its weird how styles make match ups because Tommy did so well against ray ( i think it was a draw) and then ray beat hagler by split decision I believe, but hagler annhilates tommy. what an exciting time that was.

These days I am very excited about 135 pounds and 147 pounds. So welterweight again is doing really well along with LW.

135 - I still think Loma is one of the best but he is battling the clock. He is small and could go back down but he already accomplished that plus shakur stevenson at 130 is really good. When he fought teo he came on too late and only had one good arm supposedly. I think Teofimo should have beat Kambosos but had a horrible game plan, bad coaching, etc. I mean the guy is bigger, stronger, faster. I saw a great breakdown that showed teo on the pads and he is very predictable. He does the jack dempsey step into everything. So if your Kambosos, once you see his back foot come foreward to his stance he's ready, then once he initiates his front foot forward all George had to do was time that step. Timing beat speed. As soon as Teo's motion started coming forward you punch with him, or very often, cought him.
Tank Davis is a powerhouse and hits like a welterweight probably.
Devin Haney has a good jab but he doesn't move his head much.
Ryan garcia doesnt impress me. when he has people in trouble he starts throwing bombs with his chin straight up in the air and he got caught his last fight. A more season fighter might have knocked him out.
Also got Commey whos tough as nails
and Linares who is getting older but is always a good fight. He did put loma on his ass. He is also very tough.

147.
We all know the fight that must happen. Was it like this back in the day with hagler, hearns, etc. because spence should be fighting crawford and theres so much bullshit crawford will be 35 soon and I want to see both fighters at their peak.
I personally favor crawford i love how smart he is as the fight goes on he finds the weaknesses then exploits them. However i am worried spence is bigger than he is. You can just look at errol spences picture and see he's definitely bigger than terrance crawford. It funny how divided people are on youtube videos about this fight they really dig in to each other with vitriol.
I think it sadly might go all 12 decision for errol. Hed use his bigger frame, stay behind that jab, and we know crawford will lose a couple rounds in the beginning as he feels him out. But if he cant put him away like he just did to porter he may lose on points.
Theres also Vergil Ortiz with that mexican style who hits very hard -( today's Duran lol)
Then theres "Boots" Jaron Ennis who is extremely athletic and very good. Its like when Roy Jones came in it would have been awesome if he was there sooner to fight the 4 kings, well this boots guy has that atleticism that is amazing.

Both those divisions are awesome right now. Enough with all the promotional bullshit i want to see the best fight the best!

@mozfonky doesnt watch modern boxing. He has no idea who any of those guys are.
It's like seeing an old man answer your question about a guitar and referencing Prince, and you following it up with "did you get the new Drake album"

 

[mozfonky]

don't know who drake is but can he even play one instrument?

 

[PHATV]

I have british friends. Sometimes it wears off on me. Just like my family in texas influences some of what I say. I didn't even notice it, its not like Im writing an email to a colleague.

OK, but "colleague" didn't really help. Also, 4:40am ET you reply?
Did you get some video together for Tim?
Finally, when you say you're "not familiar with his work" I just assumed you were goofing about that part. That it was a joke. No worries, though. All good.

Carry on, tally ho!