defending a hold

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Fall of Exile, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've been doing some grappling with a friend of mine. He is the same size as I am and his knowledge of submissions and positions is lesser than mine. Everytime I grapple, I am relaxed and I don't use 100% of my strenght, as oppose to him. I am able to submit him from the guard or side control or mount.

    But everytime we start on our knees, he somehow gets the hold of my head, whether I shoot low or from the side. It's either a guillotine choke or the bully head lock (see Carlos Newton vs Pat Miletich). None of them seem to hit my neck, more so the jaw. It hurts like a bitch. Sometimes I am able to overcome the pain, find a good position and break the lock. Most of the times I just tap, because I have a feeling he's going to break my jaw.

    I was wondering, if there is a simple defense or trick to overcome a lock like these two. It's not a choke, more like squeezing my head with everything he's got. I've never seen somebody tap to this (in MMA). Do I just have to overcome the pain everytime and then eat through a straw for the next couple of days. Does anybody have any advice?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,210
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    no midget for me. so if both start on knees, one has to pull guard.
     
  3. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do pull guard. But I really want to overome this and be agressive. I want to take him down and control him from top position as oppose to pulling guard. This would be probably easier if we started on our feet. I would be able to clinch higher or shoot lower. Be more agressive. He just seem to get a hold of my head and squeeze it. I just don't understand how come this is a major problem for me, but you never see anybody do what he does, neither anybody tap from that. Again, it is possible for me to overcome the pain and eventually break the grip. But in a couple of attempts, it really hurts my jaw.
     
  4. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
  5. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,210
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    shooting for tkd from the knees is dumb.

    as you realise it is just too easy for uke to grab your head and stall.
     
  6. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess so. So I should just work in the upper clinch?
     
  7. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,210
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    what about just starting from stand up for specific tkd training?

    doing upper clinch from you knees is dumb as you always notice one person will end cheating and will stand up.
     
  8. Theresmorgan

    Theresmorgan White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    This. When you roll with him, just start in guard if he won't. I don't see the point in training midget wrestling, personally.
     
  9. bnosam

    bnosam Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    0
  10. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    32,493
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    NY
    Correct. If you want to take him down then start from the feet. There is no such thing as a takedown from the knees. Only midget judo or midget wrestling.

    Don't drop your head when coming into him and he won't be able to catch the guillotine.

    Also, if you're just grappling with your friend in your yard, and aren't actually training, and want advice on how to tap out your friend, I withdraw anything constructive I have said.
     
  11. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    go and join a BJJ school

    ^^^ The best advice you will get on this thread, I guarantee it.
     
  12. Mike Wilson Jr.

    Mike Wilson Jr. Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    qft!
     
  13. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks a lot guys! I really appreciate your help.

    Next time, it is probably better to work on takedowns on the feet and ground game seperately.
     
  14. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know. Martial arts is really just a form of recreation for me. The only possible way for me to train is to work with friends because of my busy school and job schedule. I find boxing once a week with friends easier, since I've done more boxing than bjj. But still I like the grappling part so much.
     
  15. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    32,493
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    NY
    Yeah but do your friends actually have any legitimate training? Because if not then what you're doing isn't training. Training implies learning and developing skill. If you guys are just some untrained dudes trying to submit each other (or punch in the case of boxing), then there's actually a good chance you're getting worse, by developing bad habits.
     
  16. bnosam

    bnosam Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    0
    As much as you don't want to hear it, don't grapple until you train. It's dangerous, you learn a lot of safety things in class that you wouldn't think of (breakfalls for example). I'll admit I used to grapple with friends a bit, which led me to get involved in the BJJ classes here. But I'm off training because I injured my knee and wrist outside of class a few weeks ago.
     
  17. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    This guy doesn't. That is why I go really easy with him, almost lazy. I never refuse to tap when hurt. I spar with two other guys that train / have trained. I find it easier with them, because I know what to expect. Armbars, guillotines, rnc, etc. Submissions I know how to defend, positions I know how to work. That's why I was guessing there must be a simple way to overcome a primitive bully-style hold (not even a choke). Just wanting to defend it. And don't get me wrong, we are not two over-competitive dudes trying to break each other.
     
  18. Fall of Exile

    Fall of Exile Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will consider that, thanks for the advice.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.