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Today : [JMMA Scene]
MYTH: Earpieces had a direct influence on Pride´s fights and their legitimacy.
Note: this thread can be seen as an extension of these ones:
Historically, UFC shills, like Sonnen, have been usin´ this as an angle of attack with a view to underminin´
Pride´s legitimacy::
But you cant point at this 'gray area' without showin´ technical sequences that prove Pride´s bias.
If you show the 'weapon', you gottah show the...'crime'...
Technically, earpieces could have realistically interfered in 3 types of Configuration:
I/ Yellow Cards:
The Ref. would give a yellow card for being a little bit passive, and that meant Pride would take 10 percent
out of the fighter´s pay...
This was great for the fans, as it would more often than not create a sense of urgency and more action during the fight.
Still, as Hendo said:
"They started going over-the-top the last couple of years.
They got a little happy taking 10 percent from people, but for the most part, it created a sense that you
wanted to be aggressive because you didn't want to lose 10 percent of your pay”
But the fights were not less legitimate because of this interference.
II/ 'Early' Stoppages:
Well, it was actually more often than not the opposite.
Some fighters would take some severe beatings b4 the Ref´s or Corner´s interference...
Still, a few cases:
@ Pride 3:
Kerr vs THE Pedro: kimura, THE Pedro kept contestin´and sayin´that he didnt tap, which is true...
Wouldnt be the 1st time that a Ref. prevents a severe injury though...in any MMA Org.
@ Pride 8:
Kazushi Sakuraba vs Hoyler Gracie:
Them Gracies 1st negociated some very special rules: if SAKU wasnt able to submit or KO Hoyler, the latter
would then be considered the winner...
They negociated again, and they finally agreed on no Judges...
Obviously, Hoyler didnt tap, but what a [physical] mismatch...
SAKU was forced to take this fight (he didnt want it, considerin´ Hoyler too small), but had to in order to
get the bigger Gracies...
SAKU punished Hoyler with vicious leg kicks when he opted for the butt scoot position, and his pain was a sad thing to witness indeed... If you´re not a Gracie, nothing much to whine about tbh...
And they had so many times a 'friendly' Ref. (GJJ student, actually) during the Vale Tudo era [see Huas vs Pinduka, Wallid vs Tadeu...]
@ PRIDE Shockwave 2002:
Hoyce vs Yoshida 1:
Poor Hoyce got played, but again: them Gracies had so many times a 'friendly' Ref. (GJJ student, actually)
during the Vale Tudo era [see Huas vs Pinduka, Wallid vs Tadeu...]
Technically, the Ref. was the only one who could assess the situation, since Hoyce was hidden below Yoshida who covered his face and upper-body, Only him could hear what was happenin´ there...
No one backstage could really assess this situation, realistically...
III/ Questionable Stand-ups:
2 [extreme] cases here:
One absurdly overlooked:
> SAKU G. vs Vitor Gracie:
In the 2nd Round, Vitor got a gifted stand-up (unwarranted since SAKU G. was pretty active: leg kicks, GNP,
stomps,axe kicks, even punches to the legs...)
There was absolutely no reason to grant this stand-up, since Vitor wanted to be there on the ground butt-
scootin´, and the audience was lovin´ every SAKU leg kicks.
SAKU was cruisin´to an easy victory.
Hence, the Ref. could have technically saved Vitor and given him a chance to score a KO against
one of Pride´s biggest Japanese star.
See @ 16mn10:
> Wand vs Rampage 1:
The most famous and controversial one, and the one used as an angle of attack against Pride´s legitimacy.
According to this narrative, Pride would have given its preference to Wand (but...who was the most marketable?...when you think about it...)
Wand 1st got a standing guillotine:
@ 2mn44:
Nothing much happened, then the fight went to the ground, @ 3mn29
Between 3mn29 and 5mn49:
Rampage didnt try ONCE to:
- posture up.
- pass Wand´s guard.
- create any submission attempt.
- land any legit GNP (only 'bureaucratic' punches to the ribs)
In short, Rampage mounted ZERO offence.
Then, between 5mn49 and 5mn53, Wand tried to pull an armbar,
and that´s when Rampage managed to pass Wand´s guard, gettin´the side control and landin´ ONE knee.
Then, Wand went back to full guard, @ 5mn57.
Between 5mn57 and 7mn54:
Rampage tried once to get the side control, failed, and then threw some 2 punches to the head.
TOTAL: 4mn25sec on the ground. and Rampage mounted very lil offense.
> Added: Gomi vs Azeredo
2 potentially controversial Stand-ups in Gomi´s favor...
1st one: after 1mn10s:
[see Gifs page 3]
2nd one: after 1mn18s :
[see Gifs page 3]
That´s rather... quick...even though Bushido did suffer much more pressure (since the very beginnin´... Takada was even threatenin´to stop them...) to have less borin´fights...
2 things, tho:
> Gomi did receive a green card each time
> The Ref. had no earpiece...
Any other technical sequences?, we can discuss them...
MYTH: Earpieces had a direct influence on Pride´s fights and their legitimacy.
Note: this thread can be seen as an extension of these ones:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yuji-shimada-did-ken-dirty-39.3961513/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...d-to-face-2-opponents-in-the-ring-33.3924541/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yuji-shimada-did-ken-dirty-39.3961513/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...d-to-face-2-opponents-in-the-ring-33.3924541/
Historically, UFC shills, like Sonnen, have been usin´ this as an angle of attack with a view to underminin´
Pride´s legitimacy::
But you cant point at this 'gray area' without showin´ technical sequences that prove Pride´s bias.
If you show the 'weapon', you gottah show the...'crime'...
Technically, earpieces could have realistically interfered in 3 types of Configuration:
I/ Yellow Cards:
The Ref. would give a yellow card for being a little bit passive, and that meant Pride would take 10 percent
out of the fighter´s pay...
This was great for the fans, as it would more often than not create a sense of urgency and more action during the fight.
Still, as Hendo said:
"They started going over-the-top the last couple of years.
They got a little happy taking 10 percent from people, but for the most part, it created a sense that you
wanted to be aggressive because you didn't want to lose 10 percent of your pay”
But the fights were not less legitimate because of this interference.
II/ 'Early' Stoppages:
Well, it was actually more often than not the opposite.
Some fighters would take some severe beatings b4 the Ref´s or Corner´s interference...
Still, a few cases:
@ Pride 3:
Kerr vs THE Pedro: kimura, THE Pedro kept contestin´and sayin´that he didnt tap, which is true...
Wouldnt be the 1st time that a Ref. prevents a severe injury though...in any MMA Org.
@ Pride 8:
Kazushi Sakuraba vs Hoyler Gracie:
Them Gracies 1st negociated some very special rules: if SAKU wasnt able to submit or KO Hoyler, the latter
would then be considered the winner...
They negociated again, and they finally agreed on no Judges...
Obviously, Hoyler didnt tap, but what a [physical] mismatch...
SAKU was forced to take this fight (he didnt want it, considerin´ Hoyler too small), but had to in order to
get the bigger Gracies...
SAKU punished Hoyler with vicious leg kicks when he opted for the butt scoot position, and his pain was a sad thing to witness indeed... If you´re not a Gracie, nothing much to whine about tbh...
And they had so many times a 'friendly' Ref. (GJJ student, actually) during the Vale Tudo era [see Huas vs Pinduka, Wallid vs Tadeu...]
@ PRIDE Shockwave 2002:
Hoyce vs Yoshida 1:
Poor Hoyce got played, but again: them Gracies had so many times a 'friendly' Ref. (GJJ student, actually)
during the Vale Tudo era [see Huas vs Pinduka, Wallid vs Tadeu...]
Technically, the Ref. was the only one who could assess the situation, since Hoyce was hidden below Yoshida who covered his face and upper-body, Only him could hear what was happenin´ there...
No one backstage could really assess this situation, realistically...
III/ Questionable Stand-ups:
2 [extreme] cases here:
One absurdly overlooked:
> SAKU G. vs Vitor Gracie:
In the 2nd Round, Vitor got a gifted stand-up (unwarranted since SAKU G. was pretty active: leg kicks, GNP,
stomps,axe kicks, even punches to the legs...)
There was absolutely no reason to grant this stand-up, since Vitor wanted to be there on the ground butt-
scootin´, and the audience was lovin´ every SAKU leg kicks.
SAKU was cruisin´to an easy victory.
Hence, the Ref. could have technically saved Vitor and given him a chance to score a KO against
one of Pride´s biggest Japanese star.
See @ 16mn10:
> Wand vs Rampage 1:
The most famous and controversial one, and the one used as an angle of attack against Pride´s legitimacy.
According to this narrative, Pride would have given its preference to Wand (but...who was the most marketable?...when you think about it...)
Wand 1st got a standing guillotine:
@ 2mn44:
Nothing much happened, then the fight went to the ground, @ 3mn29
Between 3mn29 and 5mn49:
Rampage didnt try ONCE to:
- posture up.
- pass Wand´s guard.
- create any submission attempt.
- land any legit GNP (only 'bureaucratic' punches to the ribs)
In short, Rampage mounted ZERO offence.
Then, between 5mn49 and 5mn53, Wand tried to pull an armbar,
and that´s when Rampage managed to pass Wand´s guard, gettin´the side control and landin´ ONE knee.
Then, Wand went back to full guard, @ 5mn57.
Between 5mn57 and 7mn54:
Rampage tried once to get the side control, failed, and then threw some 2 punches to the head.
TOTAL: 4mn25sec on the ground. and Rampage mounted very lil offense.
A Stand-up call involvin´ Takada, Pride´s biggest star:
Stand-up > Takada vs Igor:
Duration: 4mn 27s
Stand-up > Wand vs Rampage :
Duration: 4mn 25s
Stand-up > Takada vs Igor:
Duration: 4mn 27s
Stand-up > Wand vs Rampage :
Duration: 4mn 25s
> Added: Gomi vs Azeredo
2 potentially controversial Stand-ups in Gomi´s favor...
1st one: after 1mn10s:
[see Gifs page 3]
2nd one: after 1mn18s :
[see Gifs page 3]
That´s rather... quick...even though Bushido did suffer much more pressure (since the very beginnin´... Takada was even threatenin´to stop them...) to have less borin´fights...
2 things, tho:
> Gomi did receive a green card each time
> The Ref. had no earpiece...
Any other technical sequences?, we can discuss them...
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/#post-144836697
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/#post-144836697
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
Last edited:
![{<hhh]](http://i.imgur.com/qoAggsG.png "hhh {<hhh]")
