Dealing with wrestlers

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exile27

Guest
There is this kid at my gym. He's only 16 years old, but he weighs probably about 210lbs and is solid. From what I've heard, he won states last year for whatever weight class it is he wrestles in. Bottom line, he is a beast of a wrestler.

We're both new to BJJ, and I probably actually have a better understanding of the techniques than he does (this is not saying much as we're both noobs). But when we roll, this kid murders me! His positioning is insane! Even when I have him mounted, is ability to buck me off is nuts. He passes my gaurd reletively easy, and once he's got me mounted it's like having a mountain on me.

There are other much bigger guys and guys that have been training much longer, but none of them give me the same problems as this kid.

Don't get me wrong, I really like rolling with him. He really let's me work on my defense. And I can tell with each roll that I'm improving. But really, all I've really been able to do with him so far is just lock him down and try to survive.

So how do you guys deal with a really good wrestler?
 
when i have wrestlers or really strong guys in my guard i focus on breaking their posture, staying tight, and never giving them the chance to get good base, b/c once they get that it's hard to break them back down.
 
I've kind of been having the same problem at my club. We work out of a highschool wrestling room and this guy is actually the wrestling coach for like the middle school or something in the area. He's in his early 40s/late 30s, and though I have much more experience than him when it comes to jiu-jitsu, he's been wrestling for probably at least 20-25 years, plus the guy is just ridiculously strong.

If he ever gets on top of me I can't get him off (from side mount that is) and he only has ever been able to tap me with a kimura because basically he muscles my arm down and locks it.

However, if I ever get top positioning he can't do anything to me, that and I can pass his guard like its nothing. I just never want him to be on top of me.

My solution to the problem is to start developing a really strong closed guard and focus on breaking their posture. I'm actually going to start working rubber guard on this guy (something I've never really used, but I got Bravo's book) specifically because I think that is the best thing to do to use against someone like this when it comes to guard work. Breaking them down, staying really tight and high on them, and attacking from there.
 
The Colonel said:
I've kind of been having the same problem at my club. We work out of a highschool wrestling room and this guy is actually the wrestling coach for like the middle school or something in the area. He's in his early 40s/late 30s, and though I have much more experience than him when it comes to jiu-jitsu, he's been wrestling for probably at least 20-25 years, plus the guy is just ridiculously strong.

If he ever gets on top of me I can't get him off (from side mount that is) and he only has ever been able to tap me with a kimura because basically he muscles my arm down and locks it.

However, if I ever get top positioning he can't do anything to me, that and I can pass his guard like its nothing. I just never want him to be on top of me.

My solution to the problem is to start developing a really strong closed guard and focus on breaking their posture. I'm actually going to start working rubber guard on this guy (something I've never really used, but I got Bravo's book) specifically because I think that is the best thing to do to use against someone like this when it comes to guard work. Breaking them down, staying really tight and high on them, and attacking from there.
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Sounds similar to this kid. The only thing he taps me with is a key lock. And like you said, he does it mu muscling my arm into position. Lately I've been doing a much better job at keeping tight and not giving him this opportunity.

As far as him posturing, you guys are dead on. That's what I meant when I said all I can do is lock him down. And it has to be right away, because if he does posture up, it's damn near impossible for me to break him back down.
 
Just keep practicing and working your technique. Eventually you'll close the gap and start to do better. You're new to grappling and he's been wrestling for a while so he has more grappling experience
 
exile27 said:
Sounds similar to this kid. The only thing he taps me with is a key lock. And like you said, he does it mu muscling my arm into position. Lately I've been doing a much better job at keeping tight and not giving him this opportunity.

As far as him posturing, you guys are dead on. That's what I meant when I said all I can do is lock him down. And it has to be right away, because if he does posture up, it's damn near impossible for me to break him back down.
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Are you rolling gi or no gi?
 
"What do I do with someone that is a substantially better grappler than me?"

You lose... probably the vast majority of the time. If you are both new this is going to be a problem. Either you start understanding jiu jitsu and he doesn't and he continually gets caught in guillotines and triangles(like most beginning wrestlers transferring over to grappling), or you both progress and your bottom/defense game will benefit from rolling with him.

A gifted athlete in a similar sport will learn a new one relatively quickly. This is like starting racquetball at the same time as a state champion tennis player and wondering why they smoke you.
 
I'm not wondering why he'll smoke me. I know full well why he'll smoke me. I want some input on what I can do to not get smoked, or at least not get smoked as bad.
 
pressure and technique. don't give him any space and lock him down with good solid technique using your core and legs to do most of the heavy work. if that fails...wear sprawl shorts and tapout rashguard and he'll be hella afraid of you then.
 
exile27 said:
I'm not wondering why he'll smoke me. I know full well why he'll smoke me. I want some input on what I can do to not get smoked, or at least not get smoked as bad.
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train 2x as much as him
 
if both of you are newbies and he's got all that wrestling exp, he's gonna rape you in the scrambles. focus on solid control and slowing the pace down.
 
exile27 said:
I'm not wondering why he'll smoke me. I know full well why he'll smoke me. I want some input on what I can do to not get smoked, or at least not get smoked as bad.
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Train your ass off. I suppose you might feel that you have a slight advantage in the subs and the concepts behind bjj but he still has a vastly better ground game and at this time seems much more physically potent.

Don't make the mistake in thinking that all you can do is to outwit him. You train like a mofo and get in fighting fit condition where you are much stronger, faster, hell on wheels and that with your routine bjj training is your best bet. You will surprise yourself and it will make your technique work much better.

Also, I'm not a bjjer but I remeber watching lots fight vs more experienced wrestler and judo types and try not to fall into the habit of playing a counter read and react game just knowing he is going to beat you in the scrambles. Insist on the takedown and try to beat him in the scramble. You'll still get plenty gaurd work but force feed him your game and make him work to get you where he usually does.
 
Really, what it all comes down to is you need to develop better jiu jitsu. For now, all you can do is acknowlede that he's going to easily outscramble/outposition you and just do your best to slow the game down and don't let him set the pace and put you on defense the entire time.
 
exile27 said:
I'm not wondering why he'll smoke me. I know full well why he'll smoke me. I want some input on what I can do to not get smoked, or at least not get smoked as bad.
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Start doin wrestling :p
 
well it's not exactly correct... We are talking about how to deal with low stances in JUDO competition/rules. I don't know how to deal with someone like that in judo but in bjj stand up... we do the jiu jitsu shake and try to faceplant him on the ground. That will force him to posture up.
 
Sorry to tell you buddy but you can't deal with a wrestler of this calibur. Everybody will tell you that your BJJ will eventually even the playing field, but it won't. With an average wrestler a skilled BJJ would probably nullify a wrestler. This kid ain't average.

Within a year he probably will be tapping blackbelts quite often. All the BJJs on the board will get all huffy about that statememt but check back in a year. It will be true.

The reason why: Because his ground experience started when he was about 8 years old. He probably has aroud 10 years matt time 6 days a week. He has wrestler strength, speed, balance and body control. All a HUGE advantage when learning BJJ.
Once he learns the ground game and a few subs he will be dangerous.

But good news for you. Most people don't have such a high calibur athlete to work with. Learn from him. Takedowns, sprawling and such. See how a wrestler reacts to things before he becomes a hibrid. Once he is done with school he will become a BJJ that can wrestle (VERY DANGEROUS). No longer a wrestler who does BJJ.

You will become much better because of it.
 
Yeah, you're basically asking how can you beat this guy who's fast, strong, well-conditioned, and has 3-4 years (at least) more grappling experience than you do.

What would you think if someone posted this question: I'm a new white belt...how can I beat this stronger, faster, purple belt? Ridiculous right? But your question is closer to this one than you might think. Although your training partner might be pretty clueless about submissions right now and still have some "bad" habits from wrestling, within six months he'll have adjusted his game. You think you're hard pressed now? Just wait'll that happens.
 
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