Dealing with the stiff arm posture up from opponent in my guard

[tbonejackson]

I have been practicing Jujitsu for a little over a year now. There are many aspects of it that I have gained a reasonable level of competency in, but as you can imagine I am still very much at the beginner level.

I still have a heck of a time when I have someone in my guard and they posture up using the two fists in my abdomen and pushing has hard as they can. (I'm not sure if there is even a term for this technique) I try to break them down again by reaching either around their head or overhooking both of their arms, but most of the time I can't even sit up into them even if I put my feet on the ground because their pressing down into my abdomen so hard. A good deal of time they mix in the "elbow grind to the inner thigh" thing too. I have this problem in both Gi and no Gi rolling.

I have asked more advanced students for advice on how to handle this, but I haven't been able to make anything work. A few of the things I have tried:

1. Swiping their hands off my abdomen - I have had virtually no success with this as there is so much downward pressure I can't even budge their arms.

2. Swim underneath their arms from the outside - Everytime I do this, they simply adjust and trap my wrists underneath their forearms.

3. Focus on pushing just one arm away - I have had limited success with this but it doesn't feel very technical. It feels like I am just using strength to get their are off, and a good deal of the time they can reposition anyway.

4. Attempt a gi choke - if we are rolling with Gi's on I will try to just do a real simple Gi choke by reaching to the back of their collar with each hand on either side. (I'm not sure what this choke is called.) I really suck at Gi chokes however and they simply "lose their neck"/tuck their chin and I am not able to even come close to choking them. This solution might be completely viable and I just suck at Gi chokes or this is just not a good position to go for Gi chokes from; I really don't know.

5. Attempt a scissor or situp sweep - Very limited success with this one as my opponent in general has very good posture and I find it very tough to move them at all.

I can't help but feel like there has to be some key or trick to dealing with this that I am missing as I rarely see more advanced people get stuck in this situation.

I realize it may be hard to picture everything that I am talking about based on my descriptions so please let me know if you need any more clarification on anything. Any help is greatly appreciated.

tbone

 

[masada555]

Here are two solutions:

-This one is my favorite. Get up on both hands, like you're "crabwalking." Use that position to push yourself up to him (instead of pulling yourself up to him, or pulling him down). Then grab his head and break his posture -- or hip bump sweep him.

-Cup one of his elbows with both hands. Pull his elbow into you as you sit up (do a crunch). Wristlock -- or, more likely, he'll move his hand and you can break him down. This one is harder to pull off against guys who are way bigger/stronger.

 

[tbonejackson]

Here are two solutions:

-This one is my favorite. Get up on both hands, like you're "crabwalking." Use that position to push yourself up to him (instead of pulling yourself up to him, or pulling him down). Then grab his head and break his posture -- or hip bump sweep him.

-Cup one of his elbows with both hands. Pull his elbow into you as you sit up (do a crunch). Wristlock -- or, more likely, he'll move his hand and you can break him down. This one is harder to pull off against guys who are way bigger/stronger.

Those seem like pretty good ideas. I have tried the wristlocks before but not been able to pull them off. Do they work if the person is making fists instead of using open hands to push down?

tbone

 

[Balto]

-Cup one of his elbows with both hands. Pull his elbow into you as you sit up (do a crunch). Wristlock -- or, more likely, he'll move his hand and you can break him down. This one is harder to pull off against guys who are way bigger/stronger.

You can try this variant of the technique that I learned from De La Riva to increase the leverage for strong guys:

- Non-corresponding hand pushes on the knife edge surface of the opponent's hand. The knife edge surface is the part you strike with during a knifehand or hammerfist strike (the bottom meaty part).
- Corresponding hand cups behind his elbow.
- Push/pull to break his posture

Using one hand to push and one to pull seems to make it easier to rotate the guy's arm out. It's good for strong opponents.

 

[armbarking]

My favorite guard breaks involve doing this. It usually works well, but the thing I hate my opponent to do when I am doing this is when he cups the back of both my elbows and "opens" them up by pulling them towards him simultaneously using his legs to pull my upper body towards him as well. It works well, but needs to be timed right as I find he has to switch that if I can get an elbow digging in his inner thigh, thus taking away his space to cup it.

 

[J Storm**]

You can try this variant of the technique that I learned from De La Riva to increase the leverage for strong guys:

- Non-corresponding hand pushes on the knife edge surface of the opponent's hand. The knife edge surface is the part you strike with during a knifehand or hammerfist strike (the bottom meaty part).
- Corresponding hand cups behind his elbow.
- Push/pull to break his posture

Using one hand to push and one to pull seems to make it easier to rotate the guy's arm out. It's good for strong opponents.

corresponding meaning, if i'm going after his right arm my corresponding hand would be my right hand?

so if i'm getting this right, if i'm going after his right arm, my left hand would push on his right knife edge. my right hand would reach under and cup behind his elbow. now which hand do i push with and which hand do i pull with?

 

[Balto]

corresponding meaning, if i'm going after his right arm my corresponding hand would be my right hand?

so if i'm getting this right, if i'm going after his right arm, my left hand would push on his right knife edge. my right hand would reach under and cup behind his elbow. now which hand do i push with and which hand do i pull with?

By corresponding I mean mirror image hand. So a corresponding grip would be one that does not cross the body; a non-corresponding grip is a cross one.

Therefore, if you are going after his right arm, your right hand will push on his right knife edge. Your left hand will cup behind his right elbow.

You will push with your right hand on his right knife edge (this is non-corresponding because you have crossed your body to do it). You will pull on his right elbow with your left hand.

 

[tbonejackson]

My favorite guard breaks involve doing this. It usually works well, but the thing I hate my opponent to do when I am doing this is when he cups the back of both my elbows and "opens" them up by pulling them towards him simultaneously using his legs to pull my upper body towards him as well. It works well, but needs to be timed right as I find he has to switch that if I can get an elbow digging in his inner thigh, thus taking away his space to cup it.

So when they do this, does it just make your arms/elbows turn at awkward angles and you just have to escape them altogether?

tbone

 

[armbarking]

^
As soon as you recognize the break. I always start this break by grabbing a handful of pants and put my fists in his belly (near the belly button). This is when to cup my elbows because the next step for me is to put a knee in the butt and stretch out your legs by turning my other knee out and sliding it backwards while pushing with my fists so you can't just follow me with your hips. At this point it is too late because my arms will be too straight and your legs will have no power left to help out. The idea is to open up his arms so he has no leverage to push back and keep his posture. Try it. If you keep your elbows near your side you have power. Now open up your elbows as if someone is cupping them and pulling away from your body. Your fists will turn inward and your power will be gone. Add the legs pulling you in and your posture is gone! Voila. You'll have to play with it a bit to get it right, but it does work well.

 

[tbonejackson]

^
As soon as you recognize the break. I always start this break by grabbing a handful of pants and put my fists in his belly (near the belly button). This is when to cup my elbows because the next step for me is to put a knee in the butt and stretch out your legs by turning my other knee out and sliding it backwards while pushing with my fists so you can't just follow me with your hips. At this point it is too late because my arms will be too straight and your legs will have no power left to help out. The idea is to open up his arms so he has no leverage to push back and keep his posture. Try it. If you keep your elbows near your side you have power. Now open up your elbows as if someone is cupping them and pulling away from your body. Your fists will turn inward and your power will be gone. Add the legs pulling you in and your posture is gone! Voila. You'll have to play with it a bit to get it right, but it does work well.

Ok, that's what I I had pictured. That seems like a good suggestion, I will give it a shot.

tbone

 

[J Storm**]

i'm def gonna try some of these next class.

last week this new kid was there, like his 2nd class. only played football and lacrosse previously w/ no grappling experience but was fucking monkey strong. he did the stiff arm posture up and i could not break it for the life of me. and that shit hurt, the more i tried to tighten my guard the more my skin got pinched.

 

[armbarking]

Oh, one other suggestion for gi is to cross grip his sleeve with either a pistol grip or 4 fingers in grip, then with you other hand go under his wrist and grab your own wrist. Then lift up and towards your own head (like you are trying to bring his hand over your head) while using your legs to break his posture. This one works real well too. Most of the time they will release the grip they have on you once they figure out you are about to break their posture. Either way, you get those pesky fists out of your belly.

 

[tbonejackson]

These have all been great tips guys, I will definitely give them all a lot of thought and give them a try. If anyone else has anything to share, by all means please make a post.

tbone

 

[JiuJitsu_Greg]

I think you just have to try and be more aware when you are rolling. Don't let the guy latch on to your belt or pants and then try to escape. When you see him trying to grab your belt or pants you should be moving, pulling his arms and bringing him into a position you enjoy. I think the biggest mistake a majority of guys make in the guard is to let the guard passer play their game and get the posture they want. If the guy is getting distance that isn't what you want. Bring him into your range for subs and sweeps. Try keeping a guy closer and see how often they try to go fist to abs on you.

 

[codemonkey76]

This is what i do:
Grab the gi at the back of both elbows, nice and tight
Pull the elbows out and up at the same time as you pull him towards you with your legs, the key is to use your legs as well as your arms, once you have broken him down, don't let him posture.

 

[damit2hell]

as they work for their elbows in tight and posture with both arms straightened and into my gut, i like to grab the end of the sleeve of 1 arm, and cup the elbow of that same arm with my opposite hand, open guard, hip up to straighten that arm, then pull that arm across your body

 

[FLMikeATT]

You can always just switch to open guard. Sometimes it's not worth fighting to keep your guard closed. Try feet on hips or spider guard. If they stand, it opens up even more open guard options.

 

[King Creatine]

My favorite guard breaks involve doing this. It usually works well, but the thing I hate my opponent to do when I am doing this is when he cups the back of both my elbows and "opens" them up by pulling them towards him simultaneously using his legs to pull my upper body towards him as well. It works well, but needs to be timed right as I find he has to switch that if I can get an elbow digging in his inner thigh, thus taking away his space to cup it.

Thanks man! I have class Thursday, I'll try it.

 

[judofarmerbob]

anybody who's stupid enough to lock their arms in your guard deserves to be armbarred.

 

[damit2hell]

anybody who's stupid enough to lock their arms in your guard deserves to be armbarred.

not really if they got their hand on your hips