Dealing with MC Dojos ...

[Title Fight Productions]

This is fine when the school held a tournament open to outside competitors. Its not like Red just brought some boys and just busted up into someones gym and challenged the instructor.

Yeah i get it, im more saying his bogus claims of being a young 17yr old with little to no standup training and a month of BJJ is.....well, just that, bogus.:icon_neut

I believe it also helped a bit that they all out weighted there opponents by about 50-100lbs at least.

Beating up a bunch of Yellow belts two to three weight classes below you does not impress imo.

Good for him for beating the BB tho.

 

[urmomsguard**]

your club should start offering sub par karate instruction from no instructor so you are then on par with this club.

assuming they know what they are doing karate wise LOL

 

[TMtruthNjustice]

here's what i would do:

nothing.

who the fuck cares what they do? you do what you do.

 

[Balto]

I don't necessarily see a problem with invasions or "dojo storms" or whatever you choose to call it, as long as it is done in a respectful manner. You attend their class as guests, and simply ask to spar with the instructor and/or the top students during that portion of the class. It's really as much for people to see how their training measures up as it is to verify if a school is "legit".

Challenging someone in the hopes of potentially embarrassing him in front of his students is not respectful.

Also, you never really stop the biggest frauds with this stuff anyway. You only catch the really amateur frauds who aren't even good at defrauding people. A good fraud won't even roll with you or will find some way to rig the result so that things still appear okay to his students.

Ari Bolden is still teaching. Robson Pereira is still a fake black belt. Apparently even Brandon Quick is still releasing DVDs.

The people who think critically about their own training will figure out a fraud on their own soon enough. The people who don't will believe whatever they want to believe. There are even legitimate (by the normal definition of the word at least) guys who give such bad training I sometimes think people would be better off with the frauds.

It is better to just let things be and let the quality of your training stand on its own. There is no need to go drag down others.

 

[Lasse]

This one mcdojo opened across the street from my gym. They didn't call it BJJ they called it like gym or something stupid but I called them on it and went in to ask the leader to roll he just straight refused. Then I told his students where I do BJJ. Never ever let a mcdojo open near your gym or you disrespect your friends and family by not confronting them.

 

[KGB313]

Challenging someone in the hopes of potentially embarrassing him in front of his students is not respectful.

That's a pretty big assumption you're making. Who says the goal is to embarrass anyone? I certainly didn't. Sparring is just that, sparring. You know, that stuff that most schools do at the end of every class? When I ask one of my training partners to roll, I'm not "challenging" him, nor trying to "embarrass" him.

It is not a scene from a movie, in which I walk into a gym and demand that the instructor defend his school's honor in a fight to the death. It's just some guys in a jiu-jitsu class asking someone else to roll.

The rest of your post seems to be built on this assumption, so I don't really see a need to respond to your other points.

 

[Rod1]

Also sometimes referred to as a "belt factory". A McDojo is a martial arts school in which the primary focus is on making money, as opposed to the quality of instruction.

Oh boy, dont go there.

In that case... all MAs but high school/collegiate ones are McDojos.

 

[Ezra4Ever]

there was a TKD school around a couple of years ago, where I stopped in to check it out and the instructor told me he was teaching BJJ out of a book...I was kinda like WTF..?!?!?....but whatever....it was none of my business

 

[KGB313]

Oh boy, dont go there.

In that case... all MAs but high school/collegiate ones are McDojos.

I don't see how you can make that argument. Many schools don't promote a student unless they are ready, even if that means the student may quit.

In contrast, a belt factory will promote students regularly in order to keep them coming back, and for those sweet sweet testing fees.

All of the instructors at my gym have regular jobs. Their income isn't solely dependent on the gym. Our dues literally pay to keep the lights on.

 

[Balto]

That's a pretty big assumption you're making. Who says the goal is to embarrass anyone? I certainly didn't. Sparring is just that, sparring. You know, that stuff that most schools do at the end of every class? When I ask one of my training partners to roll, I'm not "challenging" him, nor trying to "embarrass" him.

It is not a scene from a movie, in which I walk into a gym and demand that the instructor defend his school's honor in a fight to the death. It's just some guys in a jiu-jitsu class asking someone else to roll.

The rest of your post seems to be built on this assumption, so I don't really see a need to respond to your other points.

It is generally disrespectful to go into another school as a guest and directly ask the instructor to roll. Not everyone finds it disrespectful, but I would say the majority of guys in BJJ would take that as disrespect. When you ask someone to roll so that you can see how your skills measure up, it definitely has the undercurrent of a challenge.

It's one thing to ask a regular training partner to roll. But when you are a guest in a new place and it's clear that you are trying to measure yourself against the other students as well as the instructor, it definitely takes on the feel of a challenge.

It's just important to realize this because the truth is that a lot of instructors (the Brazilians especially) will take that as disrespect and retaliate against you during the roll. You might be less likely to get that reaction from an American, but you are still taking a chance.

When you are a guest in a new place, it is better to follow the "don't ask anyone else to roll" rule until you get a feel for the place. Other guys will approach you if it's appropriate. You especially do not want to be asking the instructor to roll. If he wants to roll with you, he will ask you himself.

I'm not even making a judgment on whether or not this is the way it should be. It is just the way it is. There are a decent amount of schools out there that do not take well to being "measured" by visitors as you say. If you give off that vibe, they will do what they can to smack you down with little regard for your safety or well being.

The point is that you need to keep a low profile at first when you visit a new place or else you run a pretty substantial risk of having guys gunning to take you out.

 

[Commissar]

This one mcdojo opened across the street from my gym. They didn't call it BJJ they called it like gym or something stupid but I called them on it and went in to ask the leader to roll he just straight refused. Then I told his students where I do BJJ. Never ever let a mcdojo open near your gym or you disrespect your friends and family by not confronting them.

See, that is an extremely disrespectful thing to do and if you did that at my gym, you'd likely get gang beaten.

 

[Commissar]

I've been to some clubs that I was legitimately interested in, and I'd end up literally steamrolling everybody in the class. Does that mean it's a fraud? No, but it's certainly not where I want to end up training.

 

[nodferatu]

I was always told to just run in there and hit the first person you saw then swing for the fences on everyone else. If they're teaching real bjj they'll be able to properly defend themselves, duh.

 

[KGB313]

It is generally disrespectful to go into another school as a guest and directly ask the instructor to roll. Not everyone finds it disrespectful, but I would say the majority of guys in BJJ would take that as disrespect. When you ask someone to roll so that you can see how your skills measure up, it definitely has the undercurrent of a challenge.

It's one thing to ask a regular training partner to roll. But when you are a guest in a new place and it's clear that you are trying to measure yourself against the other students as well as the instructor, it definitely takes on the feel of a challenge.

It's just important to realize this because the truth is that a lot of instructors (the Brazilians especially) will take that as disrespect and retaliate against you during the roll. You might be less likely to get that reaction from an American, but you are still taking a chance.

When you are a guest in a new place, it is better to follow the "don't ask anyone else to roll" rule until you get a feel for the place. Other guys will approach you if it's appropriate. You especially do not want to be asking the instructor to roll. If he wants to roll with you, he will ask you himself.

I'm not even making a judgment on whether or not this is the way it should be. It is just the way it is. There are a decent amount of schools out there that do not take well to being "measured" by visitors as you say. If you give off that vibe, they will do what they can to smack you down with little regard for your safety or well being.

The point is that you need to keep a low profile at first when you visit a new place or else you run a pretty substantial risk of having guys gunning to take you out.

Again, you're operating under the (still faulty) assumption that the purpose is to "measure" the other school. Not sure how to give off that vibe if it's not even the reason we're there. It's actually done to measure ourselves. You're caught up in this idea that we arrogantly go in there dropping a challenge to prove our superiority.

Now I'll grant you, maybe in Brazil it's considered improper to politely ask someone to roll during mat time. At my gym, if you wait for someone else to ask you to roll, there's a good chance you'll wind up on the bench without a partner for a good chunk of the night. Most likely, because people will think you're finished for the day.

And maybe some instructors would be offended if someone asked them to roll. Ours will roll with anybody who asks them. We like putting guests and new students with our instructors or top students. My experience is that most schools tend to do the same.

I think the problem here is you're operating with the premise that it's impossible to "invade" another gym in a respectful manner. Not only is it possible, but our students have done so several times.

 

[Lasse]

See, that is an extremely disrespectful thing to do and if you did that at my gym, you'd likely get gang beaten.

Pff, you put in circles of steel and bars and you stand and sit and go up and sit and go up all frikking day and you call yourself BJJ gym I come tear you down expose your mcdojo.

These guy have no chance on me. New fancy americans with machines instead of mats. Instead of shrimp they do squats, no way I let that pass by my hawkeyes undetected.

In one room they have dance dammit, this is bjj not dance.

 

[Commissar]

Pff, you put in circles of steel and bars and you stand and sit and go up and sit and go up all frikking day and you call yourself BJJ gym I come tear you down expose your mcdojo.

These guy have no chance on me. New fancy americans with machines instead of mats. Instead of shrimp they do squats, no way I let that pass by my hawkeyes undetected.

In one room they have dance dammit, this is bjj not dance.

This is awesome because it's like 65% broken English.

 

[DrKimura]

This one mcdojo opened across the street from my gym. They didn't call it BJJ they called it like gym or something stupid but I called them on it and went in to ask the leader to roll he just straight refused. Then I told his students where I do BJJ. Never ever let a mcdojo open near your gym or you disrespect your friends and family by not confronting them.

If they didn't call it BJJ what the f*ck was your problem? That sounds like a really dochebag move tbh. Also, you think because he refused that it means you could tool him, maybe he wanted to set an example to his students on how to treat assholes like you.

 

[KJGould]

I have been thinking though, if not a Dojo Invasion, a secret inspection might be a good option generally for the future assessment of schools and gyms.

It'd be akin to restaurant critics or Michelin Guide evaluators. Send in a Black Belt as an undercover white belt and evaluate the level of coaching and file a report.

Then some legit schools can get Star ratings, while the non-legit McDojo ones can be blacklisted or something.

 

[Balto]

I think the problem here is you're operating with the premise that it's impossible to "invade" another gym in a respectful manner. Not only is it possible, but our students have done so several times.

Sorry for misunderstanding you. Since this was about McDojos and gym invasions, I took it to mean a visit with an agenda that could potentially embarrass the gym.

If you just mean friendly cross training without an agenda at another gym where the instructor has welcomed you, then that is something completely different. I just wouldn't call that a gym invasion.

Invading people just sounds bad. If you ask to visit someone's house, he will probably invite you in. If you ask to invade someone's house, he will probably call the cops. An invasion implies that it is not really friendly or respectful at all. Suspecting a place of being a McDojo does not really imply a friendly or respectful attitude either.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

A "mcdojo" is an academy where commercialism is taken to the extreme, beyond what you would expect even for a franchise. Red flags generally are: Kiddie birthday parties, sleepovers, misleading or ambiguous wording in contracts, convoluted sales team with multiple enrollment representatives, etc. etc.

It does not refer to the quality of teaching at an academy, which if poor would be called "bullshido." A school can be a mcdojo and teach perfectly legit martial arts, although the two tend to go hand in hand.