Crowd-Funded Fighting: What are the Hurdles?

ligthandshadow

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MMA fans often complain about fighter pay.

Proposal:
Two fighters agree to fight each other.
They both agree on their bout purse for the fight.

They launch an Indiegogo Campaign (or other crowd-funding site) to fund:
Bout purses.
Production equipment and CDN (content-delivery network for video hosting and streaming)
Medical.
Drug testing.
Training costs.
Licensing.

Many mma fans don't pay to watch events, they illegally steal the PPV through websites that offer it, but this campaign would involve MMA fans throwing the money literally into the fighters pockets and they could just watch the stream or download the fight.

The fighters already got paid, so its not like they didn't get what they asked for.

That way the fighters can make what they make, and if they fall short it is because the fans refused to pay them.

Any other hurdles?
 
Any other hurdles?

a few

http://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/boxingnvgov/content/Licensing/EXPECTATIONS1.pdf

EXPECTATIONS FOR PROFESSIONAL PROMOTERS & VENUES

The following information is for review by individuals or companies inquiring about getting licensed to hold events of professional boxing, kickboxing and/or mixed martial arts in Nevada. The information is being provided solely for guidance, and does not modify any statutes, regulations or policies of the Nevada Athletic Commission. If you have any questions or want any additional information, please contact the commission office at (702) 486-2575 or [email protected].
First you must get licensed by the commission. Below are the requirements and a brief explanation of the process.

1. Completed ORIGINAL application and one copy of the entire application package. Failure to answer all questions and submit backup documentation and/or give an explanation in writing as to why they are not included as part of the application will result in your application not being placed on a Commission agenda for consideration.
2. One fingerprint card for each officer of the corporation, partnership or the sole proprietor. Each card must be filled out completely. Along with each card you must submit a Civil Applicant Waiver and a CERTIFIED CHECK or MONEY ORDER made payable to Department of Public Safety in the amount of $37.50. The card is submitted to the Department of Public Safety and FBI for background checks and require 60 to 90 days for the information to be returned to us. Please submit immediately if you want to cut down on the time required to obtain a license.
3. Two years income tax returns, corporate or individual depending on business structure. If your company does not have two years of tax returns you may be required to submit personal tax returns on all officers of the company.
4. You must submit any additional information requested by the commission.
5. $500 Application fee will be collected upon approval of the application and completion of bond requirement.
6. $10,000 dollar Refund and License bond.
7. A representative of the organization to be licensed must be present at a scheduled commission meeting when the application for licensure is discussed.
8. All requests for dates to promote must be made in writing and submitted to the commission office as far in advance as possible, as they require commission approval on a Commission agenda. The letter to request a date must include the venue, type of event, date of event, any information regarding title fights on the card and what network(s) the event will be televised on.

Page 2 of 4
The following costs are associated with promoting an event in Nevada.
• OFFICIALS
Official’s fees start at $3,625 for the smallest boxing show and $4,050 for a small MMA event. Any title fights and/or a greater number of bouts on your card will increase the official’s fees invoice accordingly. If the commission assigns ring officials from out-of-town to your event, you are responsible for their travel, lodging, per diem and ground transportation.

• DRUG AND STEROID TESTING
Every event will have fight-night drug and steroid testing of contestants. It is the responsibility of the promoter to pay for those costs. The total cost of the testing depends on the total number of bouts, and the total number of title bouts, if any. The overall cost to the promoter usually runs between $1,000 and $2,000.

• INSURANCE
Primary medical insurance on the participants must be in the minimum amount of $50,000 per unarmed combatant. The promoter is responsible for any deductible. The average cost for the required NSAC insurance is about $2800 for 20 boxers. Most venues require liability insurance which is about $400.

• AMBULANCE
The promoter must have paramedics and an ambulance at the site. There must be oxygen, a first aid kit and a stretcher at ringside. The average cost is $500 depending on the length of time of your show.

• TICKETS FEES
You pay a 6% ticket fee on the gross sale of tickets. You also pay a 6% fee on your complimentary tickets if they exceed 4% of the gross seating of the house, or are used to trade for services.

• TELEVISION/BROADCAST FEES
You pay 3% of the first million dollars in television/broadcast revenue and 1% of the next two million. The television/broadcast fees cap out at $50,000.

Page 3 of 4
The following items are the responsibility of the promoter to complete in the time frame given.

• ADVANCE NOTICE SHEET
We will provide you with an advance notice form that needs to be submitted to the commission office as soon as you start making matches. You must provide the commission with records on the fighters from approved sources. For boxing shows, you must submit records from Fight Fax (856) 396-0533. For mixed martial arts (MMA) shows, the promoter must register the card at abc.mixedmartialarts.com and keep it updated and inform us when changes are made.

• CONTESTANT CONTRACTS
You must use the NSAC bout agreements. Bout agreements for the main event contestants or a title fight contestants must be submitted to the commission office at least 5 working days before the show. All other bout agreements must be turned in at or before the weigh-in.

• TELEVISION/BROADCASTING CONTRACTS
Copies of all the contracts for the sale, lease or other exploitation of broadcasting, television and motion picture rights need to be submitted to the commission office at least 3 working days before the event. This includes national, foreign, cable, pay-per-view and radio sales, including any and all rebroadcast rights.

• TIMES AND PLACES OF EVENTS
We will need to know the date, time and room or arena locations for the following leading up to the event and the event:
Press Conference(s), if any
Rules Meeting, if any (usually held only if title bout(s) on card)
Weigh-in
First fight
Order of bouts
Title fights
Television times/window

• LICENSES
All contestants will need at the minimum the following items completed at or before the weigh-in.
Application, two pictures and $25 fee
Report of Physical Examination w/ HIV, Hepatitis B surface antigen, Hepatitis C Virus antibody test results
Ophthalmologic exam
MRI and MRA of the Brain without contrast
Bring Federal Id. Card to the weigh in
Signed Nevada bout agreement
All seconds and managers need to be licensed if they are going to work in the corner. Only 3 licensed people may work in the corner (although up to 4 seconds may work a corner for a title bout or main event). Also, a manager must be licensed to receive an authorized percentage paid from the contestant’s purse. Applications can be obtained at http://boxing.nv.gov/licensing/License_Basic

Page 4 of 4
• RING ANNOUNCER
You must hire and pay a licensed ring announcer.

• CAMERA
We will have a digital camera available at the weigh-in for those licensees who do not bring passport size photographs for their applications. You will be charged $2 per photo taken by commission staff.

• DRESSING ROOMS
The promoter must provide, or must make sure the venue provides the dressing rooms with ice, tables, towels and blankets. There also needs to be a sufficient amount of drinking water in the dressing rooms.
Dressing rooms need to be located where there is easy access to the ring. If you have female contestants on the card, they will need to have separate dressing rooms.

• EQUIPMENT
The promoter must provide, or must make sure the venue provides, three tall stools for the judges, a sufficient number stools in each corner for the seconds and inspectors, spit buckets, ice buckets, and bell or horn for the event.

• SCALE
The promoter must provide a calibrated scale for the weigh-in.

• GLOVES
The promoter is responsible for supplying all gloves for the event. All gloves used must be on the approved list. The current list of approved gloves is available on our web site under Frequently Asked Questions - Events Questions.

• SECURITY
Security will be needed to walk the fighters to the ring and at ringside after the fight. Security also needs to be stationed at the entrance to the dressing rooms.

• CREDENTIALS
If credentials are to be used, the commission will need to know where to send our list, and where and when the credentials can be picked up by the officials and staff. If credentials will not be used, the officials will use their photo identification badges for admittance. The commissioners, commission staff, ringside physicians and inspectors have silver identification badges that grant them full access to all areas pertaining to the event and do not need credentials.

• PARKING
Parking passes will be needed for the commissioners and staff, unless ample public parking is available at the venue.
 

I got five on it.

sexyama.jpg
 
you'd have to crowd-fund the whole event i imagine. you couldn't really just set up a fight between two guys, hire out a venue and a cage, the referee, the judges, a doctor, event security, bar staff and all the various other things associated with putting on an event just for one fight that could be over in 5 seconds

i'd imagine the cost of all that plus the fighter's salaries would be into a few thousand dollars at least. i don't know what the average donation for one of these things are but what, $10 a time maybe? if there are any fighters that can get enough people paying $10 to watch them fight to cover the costs of all the admin costs and fighter purses then they're probably already signed to a half-decent org already
 


But that also requires them to hold the event in Nevada.
Why would they have to hold the event in that state?

The fans are already paying them exactly what they want to make, so it is not like they have to go seeking a live-gate.

Anyhow, the crowd-funding covers the additional costs, those costs are less than the many millions fighters deserve to get paid according to the fans.

Also, it doesn't have to be an event; just a fight.
(I also included licensing in my list)
 
Props for thinking out the box, but terrible idea. I mean, awful. Better to try to do it illegally.
 
you'd have to crowd-fund the whole event i imagine. you couldn't really just set up a fight between two guys, hire out a venue and a cage, the referee, the judges, a doctor, event security, bar staff and all the various other things associated with putting on an event just for one fight that could be over in 5 seconds

i'd imagine the cost of all that plus the fighter's salaries would be into a few thousand dollars at least. i don't know what the average donation for one of these things are but what, $10 a time maybe? if there are any fighters that can get enough people paying $10 to watch them fight to cover the costs of all the admin costs and fighter purses then they're probably already signed to a half-decent org already

This is kind of the point.

I often read how embarrassing fighters bout fees are compared to other sports... so let's pay them more and crowd-fund their matches to determine the worth of their matches.

We can pay for licensing, regulation, medical, insurance etc...
Video production, hosting, and streaming is accessible... production houses are eager to rent out equipment.
You can get access to a cage and/or venue.
You can hold a bout anywhere.

But if people don't pay, well, we might want to be less preachy.


BUT IT COULD WORK...
 
Props for thinking out the box, but terrible idea. I mean, awful. Better to try to do it illegally.

But you can do it legally about as easy as doing it illegally.
It comes down to fighters getting paid what they want to get paid, and they can always put their faith into the fans:

Many of us with gawd-awful histories of 15 years of stealing pay-per-views and robbing them blind.

But if the claim is fighters deserve many many millions of dollars of pay, we have to pay them that. It is only fair.
 
But you can do it legally about as easy as doing it illegally.
It comes down to fighters getting paid what they want to get paid, and they can always put their faith into the fans:

Many of us with gawd-awful histories of 15 years of stealing pay-per-views and robbing them blind.

But if the claim is fighters deserve many many millions of dollars of pay, we have to pay them that. It is only fair.


I understand the sentiment. I will confess, I used to steal some of the shows. But you know what? I decided I wasn't doing it anymore and I haven't in two years.

I don't think anything people can do will surpass what the UFC can do right now in terms of getting viewers, etc. The best course of action is to work with and through the UFC. The structure is already there. A fighters' union will help a HELLUVA lot. The money is already coming in. Just gotta work on that distribution.
 
But that also requires them to hold the event in Nevada.
Why would they have to hold the event in that state?

Every state with I believe the exception of Vermont is regulated, as are Indian reservations.

Also, it doesn't have to be an event; just a fight.
(I also included licensing in my list)

Doesn't matter if you have one fight or ten fights on the card. They're both events.


For you to do what you want, you're either doing an underground illegal show or you have to hire a boat and go into international waters to hold the fight. You can also crowd source fights to put on legal fights, but you're underestimating the costs to hold the event before you can even break even to start to pay the fighters. I think all states for example require any hopeful promoter to put down a down payment of at least $10000 before they can do their first event. The reason is promoters in the past have been shady people and can skip town without paying anyone. The medical insurance, it's not like that's cheap.
 
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This is kind of the point.

I often read how embarrassing fighters bout fees are compared to other sports... so let's pay them more and crowd-fund their matches to determine the worth of their matches.

I play rugby (as an amateur) with a guy that played semi-pro indoor football (not AFL, beneath that). His pay was enough to buy a good pair of shoes.

In other words, who are you comparing to? Are you comparing guy in the untelevised 2nd match of the card to the NFL player or the semi-pro indoor football player? Are you comparing the guy in the semi-main of a Fight Pass card to an untelevised boxer or a professional lacrosse player? Ditto others up and down the card. What do people mean when they say "other sports"?
 
You would need to crowdfund a full card. And who takes responsibility for organizing all of this?
 
lol you guys are overthinking this, 1st of all there won't be any ticket prices, ppv, it will not be on television either. this event will be crowd funded, pretty much like a donation by fans to make the fight happen. it will not be taxed at all. people who donated will get free seats on a 1st come 1st serve basis. the donations will pay to rent a venue, where it will take place. you guys are bringing up ticket fees, ppv fees, t.v fees, which goes against the original idea of it.
 
lol you guys are overthinking this, 1st of all there won't be any ticket prices, ppv, it will not be on television either. this event will be crowd funded, pretty much like a donation by fans to make the fight happen. it will not be taxed at all. people who donated will get free seats on a 1st come 1st serve basis. the donations will pay to rent a venue, where it will take place. you guys are bringing up ticket fees, ppv fees, t.v fees, which goes against the original idea of it.

Because it's breaking the law. Doesn't matter if you make any ticket revenue or not, you still have to be a sanctioned event to be legal.
 
lol you guys are overthinking this, 1st of all there won't be any ticket prices, ppv, it will not be on television either. this event will be crowd funded, pretty much like a donation by fans to make the fight happen. it will not be taxed at all. people who donated will get free seats on a 1st come 1st serve basis. the donations will pay to rent a venue, where it will take place. you guys are bringing up ticket fees, ppv fees, t.v fees, which goes against the original idea of it.

also last time i checked sites like mma junkie, youtube, and sherdog would agree to live stream the event.
 
all this needs is a non profit volunteer committee to make this happen. if anyone out there wants to make this thing a reality i will definitely like to volunteer.
 
Every state with I believe the exception of Vermont is regulated, as are Indian reservations.



Doesn't matter if you have one fight or ten fights on the card. They're both events.


For you to do what you want, you're either doing an underground illegal show or you have to hire a boat and go into international waters to hold the fight. You can also crowd source fights to put on legal fights, but you're underestimating the costs to hold the event before you can even break even to start to pay the fighters. I think all states for example require any hopeful promoter to put down a down payment of at least $10000 before they can do their first event. The reason is promoters in the past have been shady people and can skip town without paying anyone. The medical insurance, it's not like that's cheap.


No, see, you misunderstand greatly, because you are only saying "look, this will cost money."

Duh, that is the whole point of crowd-funding. Licensing and regulation was listed, as was medical, you aren't bringing up anything that hasn't been said.

... $10,000 as a down payment is toilet-tissue in the grand scheme, you typically spend more on hotels for talent and crew.

And for reference, I raised $68,000 in about six months for a ten-minute short a friend of mine wrote; and I am a nobody with no following.

Fighters fight for a living, they want to be paid better.
If Fedor Emelianenko announced on his site he would be fighting Royce Gracie in Russia in an unlimited time bout, I think there would be interest.

Freak show interest, but interest.
Then you figure out what it takes to make that fight happen, Fedor normally doesn't fight cheap and nor would Royce.

Would they need to crowd-fund three million for the match?
Maybe, but it could probably be done for $2.5M

And that is a lot less to put on a UFC event.
 
You would need to crowdfund a full card. And who takes responsibility for organizing all of this?

The individual with the most vested interest.
I say the fighters, or the people who feel fighters are getting the short end of the stick.

It is too easy to say "Dana needs to pay them more."

WE COULD PAY THEM MORE.
Dana pays them what they agree to be paid.

The fans can take it into their own hands.
It is not like getting a promoters license is impossible; I've spent more money to film on a beach in California for two hours between 5am and 7am.
 
Because it's breaking the law. Doesn't matter if you make any ticket revenue or not, you still have to be a sanctioned event to be legal.

Nobody says we are going outside of regulation.
That part has gone right over your head.

I do a lot of production and event work; it is a beast to do.
But you can streamline it.

The Athletic Commission has an application:
Fill it out.

The athletic commission wants some money:
Pay them.

But why go to Vegas?
Say we promote Fedor vs. Brock from Wyoming.
We contact the Wyoming Athletic Commission, we fill out their packet, we get both athletes licensed.

Brock comes online and says he will fight Fedor if we can raise 4 million dollars, because that is what he and Fedor want.
Fedor comes out and says that is also what it takes.

If we raise 4 million, we get to see the fight, for free, through a Livestream.
 
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