Crazy Monkey Boxing + Muay Thai?

[revolutiongym]

$uperman

Countering in CM isn't really any different from punching out of anything else. The benefit is that having spent time working on really locking down your structure you get whole body punches rather than just arm punches.

Countering shots is more about timing than about specific counter techniques - it doesn't have to be complex. If you are able to stay in, deflect shots off your structure and keep moving then you are able to throw pretty much whatever you want when the opportunity arises.

The great thing with CM is that less is more. You refine what you are doing so that you are getting effect from everything you throw. Then you can just focus on how you play your game. I counter a lot, I use straight shots to do it and they're pretty similar to what I do when I'm moving forward. The when and where I throw is much more important than the what I throw.

I work alot on using my structure to keep me safe while making simple moves (ducks more often than anything else) to make people miss shots. When they miss I can really open up my countering game. Because my structure is solid, even if I get clipped, I am still able to deliver back shots that do their job. Then I'll bail out into space and make people have to come in and do it all again. :icon_twis

icyblue

Whereabouts are you based?

 

[icyblue17]

Philippines. I can train in Thailand or in any South East Asian Country if there's no CM intructor here in the Philippines.

 

[revolutiongym]

There are a few trainers in South East Asia.

Check out the CM trainers list.

Kon in Singapore and Vince Choo in Malaysia are your best first points of contact.

I know that Rodney is out in Singapore twice this year. I think in June and then at the annual retreat in November.

 

[Soul Rebel]

Wow, I've never even heard about the CM style. I've done MT for about two montsh and was always weak at blocks, I've always relied alot on bobbing and weaving and slipping for defence. This looks right up my ally but I'm afraid to try and use it, nobody teaches this around my area and if I try and teach it to myself it'll probaly do more harm than good.

 

[kidfear0]

is CM used to compliment an already strong base in another striking style or is it something a beginner can start with?

 

[ambertch]

Check out the CM trainers list.

Rev,

Have you met any of the trainers from USA, particularly california? I see listed Gary Watahira, Eric Kolesar, Jerry Wetzel, Sam Kressin listed.

I don't want dvds or ebooks, I'd be really interested in flying out for a live seminar but all I see are 2007 information on the website.

Thanks!

 

[aries]

How do you counter with Crazy Monkey?

I see them block punches, but can they punch back with crazy monkey?

I don't profess to know much about crazy monkey but seeing that gif of rampage shows that it would lend itself well to countering if you turn the shoulders like he did. Say you deflect a straight right with your left elbow and turn to the right slightly, your body is now cocked perfectly to throw a straight right counter.

 

[Round1]

WOW!! This is the most informative thread I have read in awhile!

 

[fightingrabbit]

I don't profess to know much about crazy monkey but seeing that gif of rampage shows that it would lend itself well to countering if you turn the shoulders like he did. Say you deflect a straight right with your left elbow and turn to the right slightly, your body is now cocked perfectly to throw a straight right counter.

Rampage rendered Silvas vicious looping strikes into mere glancing blows off the guard. Silva musta been like "fuck that was my most vicious flurry!" :icon_chee

 

[revolutiongym]

Ambertch.

I've met and trained with Jerry and Gary W from CA. Jerry is the US team manager and is a truly phenomenal coach - if you want top notch coaching then get over to him if you can. He can be contacted through his site. I know that he is hosting Rodney on the weekend of 17th/18th May this year. I'm flying over from the UK to cause trouble.

Aries

You're bang on the money. With no change to your defensive structure you are able to deliver shots back exactly as you described.

KidFear

It can be used either way. We've got people with 20 years training and people who have never done a day in their lives but they're all finding new things training. I've been training for 15 years and training, and coaching, CM has helped me to understand what I was doing right and wrong in the first ten years of my training. On the otherhand I'm seeing new guys come in and just smash any progress curves I have ever seen - I just wish I hadn't spent so much of my early years learning things not to do. :icon_sad:

 

[$HandsOfFIRE$]

I am very interested in the way its used to block the punches. Can this be used in boxing or just mma? And does it work for southpaw?

 

[Metsudragon**]

^Thanks for posting this revolution, I'm definitely going to look further into the crazy monkey program, as I know there's several places my boxing needs serious work(and my striking overall pretty much).

 

[crooked]

i have the old rodney king dvd set. it was very informative. i hear he has changed it a lot lately.

 

[revolutiongym]

I am very interested in the way its used to block the punches. Can this be used in boxing or just mma? And does it work for southpaw?

It can be used anywhere you need to throw shots. One of my guys trains at a boxing gym at university and trains with us on the weekends and he uses with great success. It was originally developed for an MMA context but is being used by people for boxing, MT and MMA.

And dealing with southpaws is pretty much the same whatever you are using or whatever format you are training/competing in. The southpaw problem is a positional issue rather than a technical one. I don't hit southpaws with the 'super southpaw killing combination number 4' (although that would be great because they're awkward bastards), I work an angling game to open up opportunities and limit their chances.

Jerry Wetzel in CA is one of the senior trainers and is a southpaw. He posted this video.

 

[Soul Rebel]

Since CM requires you to raise your elbows to block wouldnt it make you more subject to body shots? Is there any way to get around this?

 

[Darwinist]

Since CM requires you to raise your elbows to block wouldnt it make you more subject to body shots? Is there any way to get around this?

You obviously didn't click the links revolutiongym provided in his first post. It's all explained there.

 

[Maroli]

dunno if anyone's interested, but I posted this in a thread I created awhile ago. You can see how static blocking like in ring style muay thai isn't really good when there aren't gloves, and active blocking, like in CM, is what was used in the muay boran days. This is why crazy monkey adapts well to MMA

http://revver.com/video/321826/muay-chaiya-basic-sparring/

 

[Soul Rebel]

You obviously didn't click the links revolutiongym provided in his first post. It's all explained there.

I did actually, it just seems that raising your elbow even from the hunched stance could leave you open for a body shot if your opponent anticipates it.

 

[revolutiongym]

Since CM requires you to raise your elbows to block wouldnt it make you more subject to body shots? Is there any way to get around this?

Hey Soul Rebel

The two main things for dealing with the body shot are:

1) the lockdown of the core and
2) a level change to stop shots hitting you at the bottom of (or below) your ribs.

These work so well and are so simple that it is pretty much the best response to body shots I've ever tried.

Fundamentally there are two ways to throw a body shot -
a) as an arm punch where you just wing it in under someone's guard or
b) by level changing to throw the shot with power behind it. (Same with uppercuts, without dipping so you can drive back up again you lose a lot of power.)

The two defences deal with the two types of shot. Your lockdown (1) should pretty much negate the arm-only punch (a) and if some one level changes to throw a solid body shot you level change with them, so (2) defends (b). If you develop the habit of always matching someone's level change then you take away the risk of solid body shots almost immediately - and it gives you a head start on defending shoots.

The key to the lockdown is to use your core muscles to pull your ribs down without leaning forward. If you lean forward then you stretch out your intercostal muscles and a body shot will go through to some degree.

Also that you can defend a body shot without opening up to a follow up to the head. A swung headshot that is only an arm punch can still do damage because your head is small. An arm-only punch to the body is much easier to take because of the size of your body. So body-head combinations are more dangerous than head-body ones.

Your last point about people trying to anticipate your movement. If you keep your hands moving all the time (not just for when someone is throwing something) and keep constant small level changes in your movement it is very, very hard for someone to read and time your movement. When you keep in a locked down structure the opportunity for the body shot (a good body shot, that is) rarely presents itself.

The arm motion in CM isn't just done when people are hitting you. I keep my hands moving all the time I am in range to be hit. If I only move my hands when someone is already punching I have to be faster than they are - too big a risk.

If I see something coming I increase the motion (but if I don't I still have structure, high hands and some movement). Importantly I don't have to open my body up to move my arm so even if I mis-read the body shot or don't spot the level change then I still have one of my levels of defence available (my locked down structure). If I do see the body shot coming I level change a few inches and take the shot on a combination of solid ribs, arm and lats.

The key is that there are numerous levels of defence:

1) At the core is your locked down structure
2) Next is your guard and head movement
3) Your own punches - if someone goes for a body shot on me, I'm trying to hit them in the head while they've dropped their hand :icon_twis
4) My movement and distance control

All these add up to form my defensive game - the fact that my offensive game is thoroughly embedded in there means that I am rarely letting someone have an unanswered turn at hitting me.

Hope that answers your question.

I think the most important thing here is that these are problems I have worked on a lot at my gym and I know the other CM trainers have too. If you have a play with the stuff I've discussed here I think you'll find a huge difference, I know we did. The defence to bodyshots was actually the thing I saw in Rodney's very first video that made me stop and go "That's really smart!"

I love body shots, they are one of my better punches and I struggle to catch them on the guys with tight CM structure. It isn't that in the five years I've been working this stuff I have been avoiding them. They are by far my biggest test that someone is doing things right - if the body shot bounces off and I can't follow up to the head then I know my guys have got it right.

Phil

 

[Soul Rebel]

Man thanks alot, your a huge asset to this forum. I think this thread should be archived.