Couture vs Henderson

[HHJ]

Without Yang there is no Yin.

Without Andy Wang,there are no Warriors.

 

[Cartiac]

Without Andy Wang,there are no Warriors.

Without Yadong there is no Song

 

[Richard Fannin]

Nahh .. He was exactly what I said he was.. you have your facts wrong on this one

no big deal .. alot of people overlook this attribute of Hendo

Oof, obviously I thought I had quoted a post claiming that Couture was the first simultaneous double UFC champ <{CMPALM}>

Hendo was the First Simultaneous Two Division Champ in the UFC to ever do it

thats gotta count for something

Only 4 people were ever simultaneous two-divisions champs in the UFC;
Conor McGregor (the one who started the trend), Daniel Cormier, Henry Cejudo and Amanda Nunes.

Hendo was a simultaneous 2 division champ in PRIDE, which he did a year before BJ Penn got his LW belt from beating "Daddy" Joe Stevenson

I guess that when he entered the octagon to fight Rampage, Hendo was still a double PRIDE champ, but that only lasted 25 minutes. Was that what you meant?


Hendo also started his third UFC stint as the Strikeforce LHW champ, or he would have had he not vacated the title on September 19, 2011 when his contract was absorbed by the UFC...
still a pretty cool feat, like his RINGs tournament win, or his UFC MW tournament one, in which Carlos Newton broke his jaw and knocked him out cold, but Hendo still won via split decision.

Poor Ronin, for 2 of his biggest losses, his opponents had to be woken up to be told that they won the fight (Matt Hughes & Dan Henderson)

 

[mkt]

Yeah, I almost corrected him as well, before I realized that he didn't say it was a title fight/defense, or specified which belt he meant when he said "wins as a champ"...
Hendo was PRIDE WW champ when he beat Vitor, so it does check out.



It wasn't simultaneous though, he had lost the HW belt to Barnett, who then pissed hot, so Randy & Ricco had a fight for the vacant HW title, and Suave made The Natural tap to strikes...
It was only after that that Couture beat Chuck for the interim LHW strap, and then Tito for the real deal.

But yeah, it does count for something.
Newer fans of the sport consider Tim Sylvia a joke, and Gonzaga a can with one random good win over Cro Cop, but they don't realize how insane it was when Couture came back from retirement to beat them both back-to-back.

The Maine-iac was 11 years younger, much bigger, had a much longer reach (longest in the UFC IIRC?) and the best HW boxer in the UFC.
Fans disliked him, but he was the favorite for a reason... he had only lost twice, a quick submission to Frank Mir, and another sub to Arlovski, that he avenged twice.

Randy was old, rusty, and his only path to victory was to submit Sylvia somehow, because he wasn't outstriking him, and he was too small to outwrestle him for 5 rounds

Gabriel Gonzaga was the new breed, a BJJ BB elite with a bunch of wins in ADCC, with some nasty power in his hands & feet, who had just outstruck the best HW striker of all times in a massive upset.

Napao is the man to beat Fedor, so what can poor ol' Randy do? He did good against Sylvia don't get me wrong, beautiful performance, but Gonzaga is the future and will dominate the division for a long, long time.
What can Couture do? He's not submitting him, not KOing him, and he's too small to outwrestle him for 5 rounds.

Very well put. It's also interesting how Sylvia and Arlovski (whom Sylvia beat twice in a row) were considered super legitimate, amazing wins over UFC champs for Fedor.....but Randy beating Sylvia and Gonzaga meant nothing. This wasn't long after Cro-Cop won the 2006 OWGP and some were saying he might now beat Fedor...and Gonzaga did the unthinkable by head kicking Cro Cop to anothter dimension. The reverse was supposed to happen. At the time, Gonzaga was considered a super scary beast, and he did have the tools (KO power in hands/feet, submissions) to potentially beat anyone.

And honestly, I can see this question being a toss-up, and don't fault people for picking Hendo or Couture. But let's not pretend that it's not remotely close or that Randy really didn't do much. I remember watching his first fight with Vitor when he shocked the world (when some people here were in diapers) and he did that several more times, including winning the HW belt in his mid-40s.

 

[mkt]

Yeah I could definitely see Randy going life and death with Shogun on the feet

That's not the point. Randy would take Shogun down. Old man Coleman did that easily, and he was a far inferior fighter to Randy as shown when they fought. Chael Sonnen also submitted Shogun. Let's not pretend Shogun had world-class TDD or Olympic level wrestling. Everyone said he was going to sweep Jon Jones easily on the ground...that didn't work out so well.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Nah, you just asserted a bunch of bunk and said "muh, quality!"

Randy's wins over Vitor (first fighter to beat him), Smith (just beaten Coleman for the belt), Rizzo (twice) and others early in his career were up with anything Hendo did. That's not counting his wins against Liddell (first fight), Tito, HW title win and defense in his 40s, etc. He doesn't have as many wins (or losses) as Hendo because he didn't have nearly as many fights.

Nope, you’ve literally ignored a clearly better resume and called it “bunk.”

It’s not even really comparable. Hell, for all the times Randy won and lost the belt, Hendo has still managed to beat more UFC champs than him.

And we’re comparing careers, Galileo. The fact Randy didn’t have nearly as many fights or quality wins is part of that.

 

[JKS]

I would go with Hendo here.

 

[mkt]

Nope, you’ve literally ignored a clearly better resume and called it “bunk.”

It’s not even really comparable. Hell, for all the times Randy won and lost the belt, Hendo has still managed to beat more UFC champs than him.

And we’re comparing careers, Galileo. The fact Randy didn’t have nearly as many fights or quality wins is part of that.

Dunning meet Kruger meet autism. Thanks for the laughs!

 

[Dr. Rose]

Yeah, I almost corrected him as well, before I realized that he didn't say it was a title fight/defense, or specified which belt he meant when he said "wins as a champ"...
Hendo was PRIDE WW champ when he beat Vitor, so it does check out.



It wasn't simultaneous though, he had lost the HW belt to Barnett, who then pissed hot, so Randy & Ricco had a fight for the vacant HW title, and Suave made The Natural tap to strikes...
It was only after that that Couture beat Chuck for the interim LHW strap, and then Tito for the real deal.

But yeah, it does count for something.
Newer fans of the sport consider Tim Sylvia a joke, and Gonzaga a can with one random good win over Cro Cop, but they don't realize how insane it was when Couture came back from retirement to beat them both back-to-back.

The Maine-iac was 11 years younger, much bigger, had a much longer reach (longest in the UFC IIRC?) and the best HW boxer in the UFC.
Fans disliked him, but he was the favorite for a reason... he had only lost twice, a quick submission to Frank Mir, and another sub to Arlovski, that he avenged twice.

Randy was old, rusty, and his only path to victory was to submit Sylvia somehow, because he wasn't outstriking him, and he was too small to outwrestle him for 5 rounds

Gabriel Gonzaga was the new breed, a BJJ BB elite with a bunch of wins in ADCC, with some nasty power in his hands & feet, who had just outstruck the best HW striker of all times in a massive upset.

Napao is the man to beat Fedor, so what can poor ol' Randy do? He did good against Sylvia don't get me wrong, beautiful performance, but Gonzaga is the future and will dominate the division for a long, long time.
What can Couture do? He's not submitting him, not KOing him, and he's too small to outwrestle him for 5 rounds.

Fair enough with Hendo having their welterweight belt at the time, but the fight was at their Middleweight (and it might have been a title eliminator). He never defended either of the PRIDE belts. Actually, I just double checked his record, and he never defended the Strikeforce belt either. He fought Fedor and then was resigned to (or reabsorbed into) the UFC and fought Rua.

Randy was always counted out...against Vitor (in their first fight), then against Smith, then Randleman, Chuck, Tito, Sylvia, etc, etc., It is crazy the amount of discounting his ability when he was able to overcome more often than not.

With that said, Hendo might be the better overall fighter. If they fought I think Randy would win, but that still does not eliminate Hendo's record, but the lack of title defenses (unless you count the Silva and Rampage fights as belt unification, which I think the UFC claimed at the time, but does not reflect it on their website) is a major blackmark.

At least imo.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Dunning meet Kruger meet autism. Thanks for the laughs!

I understand you have no other response when you look like an idiot. Enjoy being a clueless twit

We can happily compare the details any time. You’ll have to put your big boy pants on though...it’s going to get real tough when we get to 6000 year old Coleman and James Toney.

“Bunk.”



Thanks for the laughs, indeed.

 

[JustBleed69]

Randy was a 4x UFC champion in 2 different weight classes, whereas Hendo couldn't get 1 title in the UFC.

Also if they were to have fought, Randy would have murdered him.

 

[Local Plata]

I don’t even know where to begin with this...I’m guessing you’re dumb enough to take “The Natural” at face value.

Not at all. Not even criticizing, just saying Dan Henderson was in the running for most overrated fighter of all time before his TRT UFC run.

 

[Local Plata]

Yeah I could definitely see Randy going life and death with Shogun on the feet

Luckily, he was good at MMA and didn't rely on a single weapon + toughness like Dan.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Not at all. Not even criticizing, just saying Dan Henderson was in the running for most overrated fighter of all time before his TRT UFC run.

Huh, well if he was in the running then Randy must have been the king of being overrated.

Good to know.

 

[Local Plata]

Huh, well if he was in the running then Randy must have been the king of being overrated.

Good to know.

Oh did Randy win a bunch of bullshit split decisions I missed?

 

[Sweater of AV]

Oh did Randy win a bunch of bullshit split decisions I missed?

You should watch Rizzo 1 if you want to play that game. Or you could watch Hendo get “robbed” against Lyoto in a split while also watching Lyoto cave Randy’s face in.



This has been fun.

 

[Rank Squatter]

...
I guess that when he entered the octagon to fight Rampage, Hendo was still a double PRIDE champ, but that only lasted 25 minutes. Was that what you meant?

ahhh now you understand that he was the first simultaneous double champ in the UFC to ever do it

...
Hendo couldn't get 1 title in the UFC.
...

read above .. Hendo held two titles when he was in the UFC...

 

[Aluminati]

They were both kind of small guys for their divisions, Randy was the old guy on top of being small, but Hendo fought until late 40s too and leaving after a championship fight. People don't give Randy enough credit for what he did and especially at his age.

Randy once destroyed a phenom with no known weaknesses. Hendo KO'd the GOAT. It's a shame they never fought.

 

[HaulParris]

Randy once destroyed a phenom with no known weaknesses. Hendo KO'd the GOAT. It's a shame they never fought.

Imagine if they did fight, but as part of an all Team Quest tournament?
Just consider a bracket:

Randy-Hendo
Chael-Lindland
Leben-Herman
Okami-Sokoujou

EDIT: I'm going to swagger-jack my own idea and take it over to Fantasy Match-Up sub-forum.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/one-night-openweight-team-quest-tournament.4291590/

 

[chillyoo]

Hendo imo, woulda loved to see them fight but don’t think Randy offers much in that specific matchup