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Could a prime Weidman have beaten Izzy?

Prime Weidman? Sheeeit, today's Weidman has a decent chance to wrestle-fuck him in to Bolivian.
 
Choco said:
it would be important to know what version of Gynobender Weidman would face. Gyno irks me because i don't like cocky cheaters, but he is showing a remarkable progression. Early Gyno would be wrestlefucked by Weidman.

Weidman downfall was in my opinion (Apart that he always faced killers) related to his inhability to make adjustements during fights. He was brutally KOed in several fights that he was "winning" and once that everyone figured him out, it was over.
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A big part of Weidman's downfall is the twenty something surgeries he's had, his body is shot.
 
Yellowcrab said:
In some ways but still 38 years old... if you start soccer at 38 years old you might be better at 40 years old, but you will still be 40 years old...

Age is an objective metric and you're not in your physical prime at 38 years old. Once again, you just have to look at the Olympic Games...

More broadly, you don't really see competitive athletes at 38 years old in most of the major sports : NBA, NFL, soccer, tennis, F1, etc.

Weidman was 10 years younger than Anderson, i fail to see what's so impressive, especially since he immediately lost against Rockhold and Romero.

First fight against a decent fighter about the same age (Rockhold) and he lost... that's why his wins against higher caliber fighters who were older are suspicious...
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Sure but again you are speaking mostly to physical prime.

I think there is no doubt that the 36 year old Anderson that beat Bonnar crushes the ~25 year old Anderson who was losing to Chonan and Takase, despite 25 being much more in a mans physical prime years.

And that is because fighting is a lot more than just a physical prime for many athletes.

Anderson fans would say Bonnar should count on his resume when they were measuring his GOAT run but say Chonan and Takase should not count as he was not yet in his prime.
 
GOATtalks said:
Have you seen Brunson vs Romero? I could argue Brunson might actually be better at MMA wrestling than Weidman
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Yes, often overlooked fight and I loved that performance from Brunson. But he’s often been really sloppy, including against Whittaker and Izzy.
 
Crash Lance said:
Adesanya is currently the UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 3 title defences). If he can get to 8, 9, or 10 different title defences, it would be difficult to say that Adesanya ISN'T a ceiling-raising talent for the Middleweight Division.

Michael Bisping is the former UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 1 title defence). Michael also captured The Ultimate Fighter 3 Light Heavyweight Grand Prix Tournament.

Chris Weidman is the former UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 3 title defences).

Luke Rockhold is the former UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 0 title defences).

St-Pierre is the former UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 0 title defences).

Whittaker is the former UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 0 title defences). Robert also captured the INTERIM UFC Middleweight Championship. Robert Whittaker also captured The Ultimate Fighter: The Smashes Welterweight Grand Prix Tournament.

Rich Franklin is the former UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 2 title defences).

Murilo Bustamante is the former UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 1 title defence). The fans of Bustamante might say that Murilo has 2 title defences because he stopped Lindland TWICE during Murilo Bustamante vs. Matt Lindland for the UFC Middleweight World Championship.

Besides Anderson Silva, Weidman, Adesanya, Franklin, Michael Bisping (maybe), and Murilo Bustamante (maybe), the Middleweight Division isn't exactly known for having World Champions with extremely long title reigns.
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I don’t think longevity has much to do with ceiling-raising, at least as I think of the term.

What I was getting at is that I don’t see him as a clear cut “Middleweight GOAT 2.0” the way that GSP was clearly an upgrade to Hughes in every conceivable way or Jones was an upgrade to the caravan of LHW champs that came directly before him.

Izzy could certainly become the GOAT middleweight by winning a bunch more fights, but I don’t think he’s fundamentally a bigger talent or better fighter than Anderson was. Anderson was just as lethal a striker.
 
Mark McMichael said:
I think there is no doubt that the 36 year old Anderson that beat Bonnar crushes the ~25 year old Anderson who was losing to Chonan and Takase, despite 25 being much more in a mans physical prime years.
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He never lost against Chonan or Takase... anyway, most of the time athletes tend to have a notable decline after 35 years old.

And it would be even far more obvious if doping didn't exist... sometimes, they might just find better tools to cheat when older, because scientists found new enhancing products.
 
first through was like nah

then I thought about the wrestling and how jan was able to take him down. and weidmans wrestling/ bjj is much better than him.
Though.. jan is bigger no?
standup part is obvious though.
 
Yellowcrab said:
He never lost against Chonan or Takase... anyway, most of the time athletes tend to have a notable decline after 35 years old.

And it would be even far more obvious if doping didn't exist... sometimes, they might just find better tools to cheat when older, because scientists found new enhancing products.
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Ryo Chonan is 1-0 against Anderson Silva.

Daiju Takase is 1-0 against Anderson Silva.



@Mark McMichael
 
I think Weidman would have given him a good fight. His strengths work well against Izzy.
 
Yellowcrab said:
He never lost against Chonan or Takase...
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What?
Anderson lost to both Chonan and Takase in what you are saying is his prime.

- LOSS Ryo Chonan Pride FC - - Dec / 31 / 2004 Submission (Flying Scissor Heel Hook)
- LOSS Daiju Takase Pride 26 - Jun / 08 / 2003 Submission (Triangle Choke)

(edit, nvm, saw your correction)


anyway, most of the time athletes tend to have a notable decline after 35 years old.
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Yes you keep speaking to physical prime and the norm or the average and that is true. Does not mean it applies to everyone. There can be and will be some exceptions.


And it would be even far more obvious if doping didn't exist... sometimes, they might just find better tools to cheat when older, because scientists found new enhancing products.
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Agreed. Which is another reason why you cannot say Anderson was not in his prime solely due to age as we know he was roiding.
 
Anyway, anyone can read this article : http://www.dillonbhuff.com/?p=1392

age_win_percentage.png


About the age gap :

fighter_age_win_pct.png


So lower performances as you get older, but it's even worse with a large age gap : Weidman was 10 years younger than Silva in their first fight.

And it could be worse if this graph had its data by division, because age is a lower issue in the HW category, because the KO power is a limiting factor.
 
Bad stylistic matchup , yeah he could get it done
 
Prime Chris, rockhold, Andy all beat Izzy.
Izzy has plenty of holes. Fuck I even think current khamzat beats him.
 
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