Could a prime Weidman have beaten Izzy?

[chinarice]

Anderson was clowning because he was bored in life and not motivated to fight seriously. I just watched it days ago and I fully disagree. If that was the hungry Anderson that came out to fight Rich Franklin Weidman would have had little chance.

And Weidman was winning the fight due to having taken Anderson down in Rd 1, sure. He was not winning the stand up in Rd 2.

There was no point Weidman was in trouble at any point of fighting Anderson Silva.

Anderson of a specific time in his career allegedly beating Weidman is a baseless claim. We watched them fight twice and Weidman was winning both fights before the fights were stopped and Weidman was declared the winner.

We're closing in on a decade and Silva's fanbase still can't even be honest about the 2 Weidman/Silva fights.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

Looking through the middleweight rankings, and I'm seeing that there's no really high level wrestlers. I know Izzy fought Romero, but Romero was old and never really used his wrestling; and that was a shit fight altogether.

How would have Izzy done against a prime champion Weidman? The won who beat Silva, Machida, and Belfort back-to-back? Weidman usually had the means to get people to the ground, but he seemed to have issues keeping them there, but when they were there he did some damage. Curious to see how this would have gone. What do you guys think?

I tend to believe so -- stylistically, I feel Weidman would've been a terrible match up for Izzy.

 

[MCS]

Bad match-up for Izzy. Not just the takedowns, but Weidman being a talented grappler, the top game. Used to have a good chin and punching power, to bring something else than TD's.

Wouldn't have been easy, though. Adesanya doesn't have the grappling of Anderson, but has better takedown defense.

 

[Mark McMichael]

You're not in your physical prime at 38 years old (especially if you're not a HW). If that was the case, we would see 38 years old individuals breaking world records at the Olympic Games, but we don't.

Weidman only beat good fighters much older than him and yet still lost against a much older Romero.

Here's the truth

Ok then lets see if you are consistent then.

In years passed when Anderson was solidly in the GOAT debates we would talk about the fights that happened during their Primes.

So in a Prime Versus Prime comparison which fights would you attribute to Anderson's Prime Run??

Since most men's physical Prime is left as they enter their 30;s and by 33 or so they are on the decline in terms of physical prime, generally so is it fair to say you would remove all of these wins as wins during his Prime :


- Stephan Bonnar Oct / 13 / 2012
- Chael Sonnen Jul / 07 / 2012
- Yushin Okami Aug / 27 / 2011
- Vitor Belfort Feb / 05 / 2011
- Chael Sonnen Aug / 07 / 2010
- Demian Maia Apr / 10 / 2010
- Forrest Griffin Aug / 08 / 2009
- Thales Leites Apr / 18 / 2009
- Patrick Cote Oct / 25 / 2008
- James Irvin Jul / 19 / 2008
- Dan Henderson 2008

And thus you would say Anderson only had 4 or 5 fights in Prime Run starting with Rich Franklin (or maybe Leben) and ending with the second Franklin fight?

If not what is your cut off and explain that as it relates to what is perceived as the male physical prime?

 

[Mark McMichael]

Anderson was tired of the belt and its duties, and was relieved when he lost. He initially had nothing to say other than his time was up and it was now Weidman's time. Initially, he didn't even want a rematch.

That's not in his prime. That's sunsetting his championship career. Weidman was in the right place at the right time. Looking at Silva's antics and listening to his post fight speech, it was clear he was done with being a champion. And he was.

love to see you answer the above question too then?

When we compare MMA's best and their Prime runs, how many of Anderson's wins would you say should not apply due to his age?

 

[Mark McMichael]

I just rewatched all Silva's fights with my gf and I don't believe prime Weidman could have beat a non-clowning Silva and I think Silva was on his way to a fairly easy win in the first fight but his ego and boredom with being champ got to him.

He was tired of being champ and was relieved to relinquish the title and Weidman was in the right place at the right time and he capitalized. And good on him. He wasn't winning that stand up and prior to Silva's silly antics he didn't seem like he was going to win that fight.

I'd have to put my money on Izzy, sorry. Weidman's a good guy, but I don't believe he was ever on either Silva's level or Izzy's. He got the gift and the curse from Anderson - beat him twice and then shit the bed as a career, including the freak curse of breaking his leg in the same way he broke Silva's. Right place, right time.

He made history and I'm happy for him, but he was never on Silva's level. No middleweight really ever was, to my mind, including Izzy.

Hard to watch that fight and agree with that.

Was Anderson clowning and perhaps more than usual, yes.

It was clear he did not want Chris to grapple him, so like he did with Forrest he was trying to bait Weidman to try and hit him, in the ways Ali used to do in boxing. You clown the guy, make him miss, and counter him and make him lose all confidence.

Anderson got Part 1 right. Chris was trying to punch his head off instead of take him down.

But every time Anderson switched gears and tried to counter Chris, in the ways he did Forrest, Anderson was hitting nothing but air. Watch it again and try to count the Counters Anderson landed and i think it is pretty near zero, and instead you see Weidman fading and avoiding (putting Anderson in the Matrix) and landing Counters to Anderson's missed counters.

Do I think Anderson having to really respect Chris' TD threat played a big part, yes, but so what, that is MMA. Due to the td threat Anderson just could not land any strikes.

You have to believe that even in his counter attacks Anderson did not care to land to believe the myth that he could have beat Chris if he wanted to. Of course Anderson wanted his counters to land just as they did with Forrest. He just could not land them due to td threat making him that much more apprehensive and on his back foot.


Weidman was just always the type of fighter that everyone knew was the template to beat Anderson. A newer version of Decision Dan, when he still had 5 rounds of cardio to grind out controversial wins without gassing.

 

[Cowboy Kurt Angle]

Interesting fight think the pressure of Chris would be too much

 

[Mesos]

Looking through the middleweight rankings, and I'm seeing that there's no really high level wrestlers. I know Izzy fought Romero, but Romero was old and never really used his wrestling; and that was a shit fight altogether.

How would have Izzy done against a prime champion Weidman? The won who beat Silva, Machida, and Belfort back-to-back? Weidman usually had the means to get people to the ground, but he seemed to have issues keeping them there, but when they were there he did some damage. Curious to see how this would have gone. What do you guys think?

Most definitely, Prime Wiedman would submit Adensanya pretty easily too. Prime Cockhold would have given Adensanya a bunch of problems too.

 

[Portland8242]

Prime Weidman absolutely smokes Izzy. The fight with Jan showed that Izzy has serious holes in his grappling and he's very lucky that there's nobody at MW who can exploit it.

 

[Yellowcrab]

If not what is your cut off and explain that as it relates to what is perceived as the male physical prime?

I would say you're starting to get old after 35 years old in fighting sports, especially outside the HW division.

And yes, you can still win, even past prime.

Past prime doesn't mean losses...

 

[Koro_11]

No prime Weidman could only win vs a post prime version of Izzy.

The only relevant wins on Weidmans resume are dudes past their prime.

 

[Red_Negan]

It makes me wonder if people just jump at the chance to discredit Izzy.

Izzy is a bad matchup for Chris. Good takedown defence, strong, rangy, and fast I don’t see what Chris can really do that others haven’t tried. I feel Jan was a case of bad planning on Izzy’s part I don’t see how people can use that example for Chris winning.

I think Izzy finishes Christ similar to Brunson. I think to beat Izzy you need to be awkward, big, have something niche, being a good wrestler with power isn’t going to cut it to beat a dynamic fighter like Israel.

 

[Uncommon Valor]

Yes.

 

[mudrubble]

You are incredibly delusional. Weidman was very clearly besting Anderson before any taunting happened and the taunting was a desperate attempt to goad Weidman into keeping it on the feet cause Anderson was losing. In round 1 Weidman bounced Anderson's head off the mat with GnP and had 2 sub attempts.

If Anderson tried to fight Weidman as if he were Rich Franklin he would have gone for the clinch and then been on his back eating punches. Styles matter in MMA you should know that by now and Weidman was winning round 2 as well, only thing Anderson had going was a few low kicks he was still getting hit more and more to the head in round 2.

I'm going to watch it again tonight but what I remember was Weidman pushing against Anderson 2 times in Rd 2 in an attempt to grapple again and being thrown off both times and being forced to stand. And I don't remember him winning that standup. But I'll watch again and count landed strikes and see if I'm as delusional as you claim.

 

[mudrubble]

There was no point Weidman was in trouble at any point of fighting Anderson Silva.

Anderson of a specific time in his career allegedly beating Weidman is a baseless claim. We watched them fight twice and Weidman was winning both fights before the fights were stopped and Weidman was declared the winner.

We're closing in on a decade and Silva's fanbase still can't even be honest about the 2 Weidman/Silva fights.

True there was no point in that 1.5 rounds when Weidman was in trouble. And there was a point in Rd 1 when Anderson was for sure. But I've also seen Anderson come back from 4.5 rounds of that kind of trouble and I feel like Chael was the tougher fight. I'll watch again and count strikes in Rd 2 to see but I don't think Weidman was going to get Anderson down again nearly as easily as he had in Rd 1 and I recall Anderson kicking his legs around as he honed in on his distance and I feel he would have gotten it if he gave himself time instead of standing against the fence and doing silly stuff.

I'm willing to watch it again before I say more. But I will say Anderson is still the greatest in terms of how he made his division look during his reign.

 

[mudrubble]

love to see you answer the above question too then?

When we compare MMA's best and their Prime runs, how many of Anderson's wins would you say should not apply due to his age?

I think all his wins and losses apply. But I think Vitor was around the end of his prime and after that he was mostly coasting.

 

[mudrubble]

Hard to watch that fight and agree with that.

Was Anderson clowning and perhaps more than usual, yes.

It was clear he did not want Chris to grapple him, so like he did with Forrest he was trying to bait Weidman to try and hit him, in the ways Ali used to do in boxing. You clown the guy, make him miss, and counter him and make him lose all confidence.

Anderson got Part 1 right. Chris was trying to punch his head off instead of take him down.

But every time Anderson switched gears and tried to counter Chris, in the ways he did Forrest, Anderson was hitting nothing but air. Watch it again and try to count the Counters Anderson landed and i think it is pretty near zero, and instead you see Weidman fading and avoiding (putting Anderson in the Matrix) and landing Counters to Anderson's missed counters.

Do I think Anderson having to really respect Chris' TD threat played a big part, yes, but so what, that is MMA. Due to the td threat Anderson just could not land any strikes.

You have to believe that even in his counter attacks Anderson did not care to land to believe the myth that he could have beat Chris if he wanted to. Of course Anderson wanted his counters to land just as they did with Forrest. He just could not land them due to td threat making him that much more apprehensive and on his back foot.


Weidman was just always the type of fighter that everyone knew was the template to beat Anderson. A newer version of Decision Dan, when he still had 5 rounds of cardio to grind out controversial wins without gassing.

I'm going to watch it again before I respond just to make sure I don't speak out of my ass, lol. I don't fanboy a lot but I do for Anderson so I want to do this right.

 

[x9lonewolf]

Prime Weidman would smash Izzy. That’s probably the worst middleweight matchup stylistically for Izzy.

 

[Fireman Carry Larry]

You mean juiced out Weidman?

 

[listrahtes]

People forget how fucking good MW was. It was the strongest MW division in history and probably will be for eternity:
Weidman, Rockhold, Silva, Musasi, Jacare, Belfort, Kennedy, Machida, Romero

Then following guys like Henderson, Sonnen, Bisping , Boetsch ...etc. and dangerous young guns as Gastelum.

Imo its in contention for best division in history and equals LHWs grand time more than well.

Someone like Izzy would have had a very hard time cracking the top5. Weidman at the top of his game had fantastic distancing, punching power, slick inside game and overwhelming physicality. His reach is very close to Izzy (78 to 80).

I do see Izzy as the underdog against the elite fighters back then. Favourite definitve vs Bisping , Sonnen and maybe Kennedy.