Claudia Gadelha could end up as Miesha Tate did.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by CELS, Aug 21, 2015.

  1. CELS

    CELS Brown Belt

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    I think both the UFC and the fans are underestimating how problematic fast rematches are. As far as I know, there has never been a third rematch between any two fighters in the UFC. In other words, when the trilogy is over, there's very rarely any interest in a fourth fight.

    Let's look at Miesha Tate.
    When she was 11-2, she fought Ronda Rousey in Strikeforce and lost. She then moved on to submit Julie McKedzie and then she got stopped by Cat Zingano, but got the title shot anyway because Cat Zingano was injured and they needed a familiar face on TUF to sell some drama. When Miesha was 13-4, she fought Ronda and lost a second time, 18 months after their first fight.

    For Claudia Gadelha, it's' a bit different.
    When she was 12-1, she fought Joanna Champion and lost a decision. Some people feel like she should have won, there was a little bit of controversy. It was a split decision. She then dismantled Jessica Aguilar and immediately got a second title shot. She will fight Joanna in January 2016, 13 months after their first fight.

    Here's the thing. I'm not saying Miesha Tate doesn't deserve to fight Ronda again, I'm not saying Claudia isn't the #1 contender right now. However, the question is: how well can you sell the third fight if the champion wins the first two fights? What happens to Claudia Gadelha if Joanna Champion gets a dominant win this time?

    The UFC keeps making the same mistake over and over, in my opinion. They know rematches are easy to sell, but they give us too many rematches. They let BJ Penn fight Frankie Edgar three times and BJ lost all three and then retired. They're giving an immediate rematch to Cain Velasquez vs Fabricio Werdum after he was totally dominated, and then what happens if Cain Velasquez loses the second time? Cain has only fought 3 times since 2012, so how many years would it take before he could get another title shot, at that point? Renan Barao got a rematch against TJ Dillashaw less than a year after his first loss, getting only a single win between the two fights. Now he's 0-2 against the champ, and people are asking for him to leave the division.

    Unlike Ronda Rousey, Joanna has plenty of top 10 contenders she hasn't fought. And unlike Miesha Tate, who could potentially fight Cyborg at 145, Claudia has nowhere to go if she gets stuck as the #1 contender with no title shot in sight.

    These rematches are killing me.
     
  2. ovbious

    ovbious Brown Belt

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    what mistake? Giving the #1 contender the title shot?

    In the ideal world, the UFC shouldn't care on future implications, just that the best available is fighting the the belt.

    p.s. I hate immediate rematches, but match ups like Gadelha/JJ, which are not immediate and the previous wasn't for the belt, are perfectly fine.
     
  3. Bradstones

    Bradstones Blue Belt

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    gonna be another great fight!
     
  4. CELS

    CELS Brown Belt

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    I'm looking forward to the Gadelha vs Joanna fight, but if Jonna gets a dominant win, it may be a long time before they fight again.

    Let's face it, the UFC isn't a real sport and the belt has limited value as an indication of who is actually the best fighter in a division. As a form of entertainment, it's strategically unwise to have these rapid rematches which potentially remove any interest in a third match. It's like eating all your meat and potatoes right away and then you're stuck chewing on vegetables for half an hour.

    Kind of.
     
  5. Subdepth

    Subdepth Captain of a Capsized Ship

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    If the talent pool wasn't so watered down I could see TS's point. However, its always been UFC policy to have the best fight the best. Hence the rematches. Yes, its a bummer but until they figure out how to book Rousey/Cyborg, its gonna be a checkout line of uninspiring contenders.
     
  6. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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    So what? If Joanna dominates her in the rematch (which wont happen, btw) then why on earth they should even have a third match? After that Gadelha should prove herself against many of the other best women at SW. There are plenty of interesting match ups they BOTH havent fought yet (especially if UFC keep signing more SWs from Invicta).

    At this point Gadelha is rightfully the number 1 contender and its 100% right she gets her FIRST titleshot.
     
  7. Teefs

    Teefs Stevie Ray Belt

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    The loss was her first. She was undefeated when she and JJ fought.
     
  8. Evangelion

    Evangelion Silver Belt

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    who cares? If you lose to someone twice you shouldn't get a third shot.

    Jesus mma fans really love to white knight these average looking women.
     
  9. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun Autocratic Centrist

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    With all the injuries and drug busts it seems like the UFC is cashing in on the rematches sooner than later to avoid losing them all together. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

    Worked out well for Silva vs Sonnen 2 though.
     
  10. CELS

    CELS Brown Belt

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    Sure, but it makes more sense to build the rematch than to potentially have a #1 contender who's just killing off other contenders without getting a rematch anytime soon. You only get 2 rematches, as a rule of thumb.

    My bad. Stupid mistake.

    Your ad hominem is misplaced. I don't care what Claudia looks like any more than I care about what Cain Velasquez looks like.

    But the UFC should be building Cain Velasquez for his rematch, both for his sake, for their own sake and for the sake of the fans. Their last fight was probably not a good indication of how their skills actually match up, and it's doubtful that their next fight is ideal for Cain Velasquez either. He gets no tune-up fights, he just gets thrown twice at the champion in quick succession, while Werdum has been staying active and really getting some great momentum going.
     
  11. Scamrock

    Scamrock Black Belt

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    Pretty much, this.

    You have a champ. Who is the #1 contender? What will be the best fight? What will sell? Consider these things and make the best fight you can.

    Who is left? Make the best fight you can. Don't worry about bumping off contenders. Don't worry about what happens if Cain is champ and JDS beats your top contender. Just make the best fight you can.

    Make the next best fight. So on and so forth.

    If you try to plan it all out, there is no guarantee it will work out how you want. Dana White has said it himself.

    Also, a title fight is just one fight. How many title fights do we see a year? How many total fights? Here recently, we have had champs go on the shelf for long periods of time and some titles might only get defended once. The quality of the rest of the fights shouldn't suffer just because we are worried who the champ will fight. It's just one fight out of hundreds. Albeit, the most important fight, but just one fights nonetheless.

    Some people didn't want Rumble and Gustafsson to fight. They were so worried that Jones wouldn't have enough quality challengers that they were willing to watch two contenders fight lesser quality opponents. I don't want to see two top contenders fight squash matches against lesser opponents. I want top guys fighting other top guys. But people also bitched when Gustafsson fought Manuwa, so go figure.

    I guess my point is, I agree they shouldn't worry about the future. I just want them to give me the best available product from top to bottom. Don't waste what you have because you are afraid of what might happen.
     
  12. Skarr

    Skarr Brown Belt

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    I have to politely disagree with this...the UFC is in charge of keeping us entertained and thus very much has to look towards the future implications

    youre speaking of an ideal world which doesnt exist...what exists is the very distinct possibility of ending up with a situation like women's 135...there a clear champion

    there is a clear #1 ((Meisha, tho I think Cat is the better fighter...Cat doesnt not fight as often and thus has not made any sort of case towards being a more viable contender((rematcher))))

    so in this ideal world youre talking of where the champion only fights THE best person, does Ronda fight Meisha over and over again simply because Meisha is the best contender

    the UFC needs to plan out their contenders a little better, right now there are a couple of divisions that are completely messed up((HW because of the rematch)) LHW ((because of poor matchmaking and inactivity by some of these guys...Shad/Gus etc))
    and Women's 135...to be honest I could see something similiar very quickly happening in the 115 division too if Joanna Champion goes on to win even a few fights

    Edit: to the person whom posted above me...you said "This" but then it doesnt seem like youre agreeing with him at all lol....
     
  13. CELS

    CELS Brown Belt

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    This is a very good point in certain situations. Maybe that helps explain Velasquez vs Werdum, because they don't know if Velasquez will manage to get another title shot if they make him fight Miocic or someone like that. There's a risk it could end badly and he could get injured again.

    But there are so many examples where age and retirement are not factors at all. "Oh boy, we better set up BJ Penn vs Frankie Edgar 3 before we miss our chance!" No. Just no. And Gadelha is 26 years old, she's got plenty of time.
     
  14. mma2013

    mma2013 Purple Belt

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    rematches are fine if the fight was a split decision or both fighters have a win against each other. ronda vs tate 3 makes no sense when tate has loss to ronda twice by armbar submission.

    there are plenty of fighters that have gone on more than 4 fight win streaks that don't get a rematch with the champ. tate's a gatekeeper. she has nothing for ronda and i wouldn't pay $60 to watch that shit again.
     
  15. KaneThePhoenix

    KaneThePhoenix Green Belt

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    I seriously believe they used injuries in the past to change cards when the fighters were actually uninjured. I'd bet they received a "discretionary" bonus to do so unless the UFC wants them blabbing it all over social media.

    I think and hope the announcement is made that Cain is injured in a month (possible 4th Labrum Tear) or so (ONLY announcement - NOT for him to actually be injured - because I think they use it as an excuse to change matches occasionally) and have them change that fight to something more fan friendly.

    Arlovski OR .........FEDOR.

    That is a match I would not mind seeing even if he didn't fight previously, his career virtually earns him a spot simply out of curiosity sake.
     
  16. Scamrock

    Scamrock Black Belt

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    I do agree with him. I agree that they shouldn't be concerned with future implications. You strike while the iron is hot. You do what you think is best now. You worry about tomorrow when it becomes today.
     
  17. ovbious

    ovbious Brown Belt

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    Of course he is. He only added the "what will sell" variable, which I respectfully disagree (if things are done right, the best fighting the best will always sell more) but I get his point.

    He agreed with thr basic idea of "making the next best fight" all the time, without looking for excuses not to give the title fight to those who deserve it by being the clear #1.

    Thr JDS case doesn't prove my point wrong, specially since Caim only fought him for the world title once, after taking it from BF.
     

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