Classical Osoto Gari doesn't work??? (plus rebuttal)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Drew Foster, May 19, 2008.

  1. Drew Foster Silver Belt

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  2. txfighter13 Purple Belt

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    I do a form of this technique, but it is a little different. Instead of "clipping" the leg as the article puts it. I will instead hook the leg, hop past my opponent until I have the leverage to bring my leg through to make the sweep. I am BJJ guy so I will make sure that he lands on his side so that if I need to go for an armlock I can do so.
     
  3. Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    So you basically do this

    YouTube - Osoto Gari Demo by the Camarillo Brothers

    If you don't wanna watch it (even though I'd reccomend any BJJ or Judo guy to view this clip), Dan Camarillo, hooks the rear leg, hops until he gets chest-to-chest then executed the sweep.

    Am I correct? If so you're on the "classical doesn't work" side. In most competitions people do exactly as you, because as soon as you step your support leg alongside theirs, they know you're going for Osoto and they react. I only really see a classical osoto done in competition if it's done as a counter or something. Or unless you're just that good.
     
  4. KenTheWalrus Blue Belt

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    I don't agree with the first article. The second one is closer to what I've been taught, but still isn't the exact same.

    It sounds to me like the first author doesn't know how to properly transfer his weight for kuzushi. His description sounded like he put himself in the bad position for osoto through his poor kuzushi.

    I've been taught a few different ways to throw osoto.

    What I would call the classic way is to transfer my weight onto uke breaking his balance to the close rear corner. Step slightly to the side, clear the hip, and reap.

    The Korean variant I was taught isn't so much a reap as a push. The foot is placed on the calf and the leg is pushed out.

    I've also been taught a hop, kinda like the Camarillo video, but it's more of a save from crappy kuzushi than an actual tactic going in. My goal with this one is to slide my leg through for the reap, shooting my leg along the back of uke's knee.

    The last variant is my most effective osoto which is a different kuzushi method. I sharply turn uke, who is standing with a lead leg, so that his shoulders are square with his hips. I don't have to clear the hip or step to the side since I'm already to the side (even though I haven't moved) and uke's balance is already broken from the turn. All I have to do now is reap. -ken
     
  5. ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    I agree with the rebuttal and think the site owner pulled the other argument out of his ass, because he had nothing else to write about.

    Of course comp Judo is strength-based often times. But saying the technique don't work right is bull.
     
  6. georgejjr Black Belt

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    If you watch international judo competitions (including olympics and worlds), you'll notice you very rarely see classical osoto gari, but the modified version is pretty common. If you watch local and regional tournaments you'll often see the classical osoto gari, but rarely the modified version.

    You can interpret that however you wish.
     
  7. IChinaManI Green Belt

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    Honestly I kind of agree, except for that there is a good reason we learn classical osoto. All the things necessary to make the throw is there ( chest contact, off balancing etc) so it ingrains that into our muscle memory. Shiai osoto is vastly different, even yamashita never does it the traditional way. Techniques are always gonna be altered and different when you factor in stuff like body type, how your opponent fights (defensively offensively), etc. I think the reason classical osoto is there, is because ideally if everything was perfect that's what it would look like, but things change with a resisting opponent, and even though things change aesthetically when doing the throw, the basic fundamentals of it are still there ie chest to chest, kazushi to the rear corner, stepping past the opponent, getting hips past etc. Athletes aim to do regular osoto (in their mindset) when attacking with it in shiai, but it'll change because the opponent reacted or they didn't do one of the fundaments of the throw right. Like if I go in and hit chest to chest, but don't step past and dont get my hips past, yet hook the leg, I can still hop to push those hips forward, so I have enough kazushi to finish, you know what i mean? I think that we're never really gonna see a perfect osoto against a resisting opponent, but there isn't a reason we shouldn't practise classical osoto, as theoretically it is the most effective.

    Sorry for the rant, I haven't even read the articles yet hahahaha :p
     
  8. Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    That' my favorite! Can't believe people don't think of this. You just pull their left shoulder to you when their right leg is leading, then you're already chest to chest. BAM!!!! That's what happens next!


    That's what you described right?
     
  9. txfighter13 Purple Belt

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    Just because it is more difficult to get doesn't not mean that it is impossible to do. If you use correct technique most anything is possible.
     
  10. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    It works wonderfully from russian grip
     
  11. Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Just over the back or all the way over and grab the belt?
     
  12. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    gorilla arms so yeah I tend to get the belt, my mates arefat to so not much fabric left to grab LoL
     
  13. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    but I can see easy kuzashi from jsut grabing near the elbow o nthe same side as the sleeve
     
  14. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    or as a counter when someone os moving in, as an classical offensive throw no
     

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