China reverses ban on rhino & tiger body parts

[WhiteMousse]

When are they banning shark fin soup?

To me the thing that is so troublesome about all this is that... that's a ton of sharks. Where is the rest of every single one of those sharks? That's a lot of death for such a small amount of output. I'm not an ends justify the means kind of guy but I don't think this would bother me as much if they were using the entire carcass.

 

[Scerpi]

To me the thing that is so troublesome about all this is that... that's a ton of sharks. Where is the rest of every single one of those sharks? That's a lot of death for such a small amount of output. I'm not an ends justify the means kind of guy but I don't think this would bother me as much if they were using the entire carcass.

They don’t give a fuck

 

[44nutman]

Does the Tiger bone or is it the rhino horn that gives you rock hard boners? Asking for a friend.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

In the context of history when Christendom had the monopoly, or compared to the active double edged sword of Theology and Humanism today?

The first would look good (or amazing) compared to the earlier and contemporary models, the second would of course be unfair having been built wholly out of the construct. As well, I do not think evolved is a fair term at all, since, ahem if we were to put it mildly Humanism "borrowed" the entire framework and simply put it to different uses.

Second, there is this paradox I mentioned earlier:

Some of the intellectuals were swung by Humanism (Christianity without Christ more or less) , but the masses were swayed by the underlining Christian ideas, ones they held onto and do hold onto rigorously, further, many of the great intellectuals were still Christians until a few decades prior. Which, in the development of this civilization framework would be a minute out of the hour.

As well, an aside to the rather unfair to blame Christ or Buddha or I would dare to say Muhammad for people taking their ideas, and at times, trying to do the opposite in the context of ancient culture and old barbarity.

The Theologians undid a lot of barbarity in their time, and many of them did not stop their slow upheaval of princes and paupers. All those emperors are gone, Christ remains for now, fictionally or factually.








Here is where we get to the crux though, a crux hard for a lot from the West to understand:

Christianity is taken very seriously by people who "buy" the whole heaven/hell thing, and is a strong formative ideology, the bedrock of our civilization, and paints and codifies how I or you see most ideas. When a Richard Dawkins wants to "replace," it, for example?Behold, the framework matches almost all of what Christianity brought about during the 2 odd years Christ taught. It's hard from a Western perspective not to look at those ideas and go, "Wow, that is the "kind" or "right" thing to do." In the vast majority of the situations.

Buddhism, meanwhile, lightly softens the edges of East Asian cultures, and for many of them (not all,) is taken more as an ideal of reality, not something one can really do, and certainly not when the deeper ideas of society are threatened.

Let's talk about this in relation to the Chinese, perhaps:

Christ eating with the tax collectors, "I came to save the lost. It is the sick who need a doctor." (sic) IE, classism and looking down on others is a bad idea.

Confucius with his disciples: "Never make a friend with someone who does not meet your standing." (sic) IE, classism and looking down on others is of great importance to showing your good reputation.

This type of pattern repeats itself over and over, and Buddhism does not have the same long lasting upheaval and revival of temperament in Chinese culture (Or Korean, or Japanese, it's like a pretty decoration that does some good things to beautify the environment, but does not in a lot of cases change the civilization garden, or when it does, moves a few shrubs around)



It's where we get to another problem of how these cultures view power and how the ideologies fared.

Things we would consider abominable were, and are done, because... why not? Why not.

"It's wrong..." (Not that most would question this, besides in public face situations)

"But I am powerful..." (Or in history, the most powerful)

"Oh... thy will be done."

Wiki gives a different impression of what Confucianism is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

It seems like Confucius was ahead of his time actually. In fact, what you are describing seems more like the Machiavellianism of Renaissance Europe. A school of thought that is formed in the turmoil of Europe over the centuries prior.

China for large chunks of its history has been unified, and existed in a state of relative peace among its inhabitants. Whereas Europe, even till now, has always been fragmented. There has always been lots of competing powers. That creates the perfect environment to nurture the kinds of ideas, and notions you are attributing to the east asians. The chinese are what they are now largely because of the machinations of the CCP. A CCP whose founder, Mao, was a student of the west especially Classical Liberalism.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

They don’t give a fuck

The West was very much like this as well. Then one day they just grew environmentally sentimental. I guess that is what happens when you reach civilizations peak. You can afford to care, and throw money at conservation. The chinese just are not at that stage yet.

 

[InternetHero]

Wiki gives a different impression of what Confucianism is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

It seems like Confucius was ahead of his time actually. In fact, what you are describing seems more like the Machiavellianism of Renaissance Europe. A school of thought that is formed in the turmoil of Europe over the centuries prior.

China for large chunks of its history has been unified, and existed in a state of relative peace among its inhabitants. Whereas Europe, even till now, has always been fragmented. There has always been lots of competing powers. That creates the perfect environment to nurture the kinds of ideas, and notions you are attributing to the east asians. The chinese are what they are now largely because of the machinations of the CCP. A CCP whose founder, Mao, was a student of the west especially Classical Liberalism.

Well, you say Confucianism gives a "different impression," based on the Wikii and then have not said what the differences are or how the source would reach these conclusions.

Therefore, I can not fairly respond to your protests I'm afraid.

By the way, I would recommend "The Analects of Confucius: A Philosophical Translation" translated by Rogert T. Ames and Henry Rosment Jr. It captures a lot of the meaning, though the language is difficult because it tries to match the original Chinese and academic standards.

As for, the ruminations on the "peace" of unified China (I think Vietnam would differ in opinion, or the vassal states in Korea, or the invasions from the Mongols and Manchurian would differ. Isolation did not equal "peace" in the modern, American interpretation of the word ) if we assume this peace existed, hmm, what of the people who lived in the peaceful empire? As it a harmonious dream or contemptuous prison of filial slavery?

When you read about the slave labor worked to death on the Great Wall, one starts to understand a bit, the horrific cruelty of the empire, the ruling magistrate, or in the links of filial piety one might start to see deeper into why China's past is one of sorrow and outrage. That's just the chapter leading up to Maoism.

As well, to be honest you're not arguing otherwise, nor perhaps are arguing from an understanding of Chinese history, philosophy, personal experience, or it seems from an understanding of these ideas.

How knowledgeable are you personally?

Allow me ask a few simple questions:

How long have you studied Chinese history, philosophy, and principles?

How many times have you traveled to China or Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, or the Far East?

Have you ever lived in any of these places?

How many Chinese people have you spoken to and discussed ideas with? Do you have any street knowledge to go with any possible book knowledge. Any Chinese friends with a high level of education?

How much do you understand about cultural theory in general, and about how theories like, oh, Power Distance, relate to Mainland ideas?

Have you ever lived in China?

How good are your Chinese language skills?

I would like to know, if you do not mind.

 

[MicroBrew]

Naw.. I think they knew. I just think they wanted the middle class of the West taken down a couple notches; along with the sense of decency that evolved that kept them from doing whatever they wanted.

I think the West was rather naive to think that many of these old World cultures would emulate Western norms , just like how the US thought once Saddam was ousted Iraq could be turned into a democracy and get along peacefully.

 

[Seaside]

I think the West was rather naive to think that many of these old World cultures would emulate Western norms , just like how the US thought once Saddam was ousted Iraq could be turned into a democracy and get along peacefully.

never the goal. something only the establishment plebs at the cfr middle tiers and lower tier people believe.

Wiki gives a different impression of what Confucianism is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

It seems like Confucius was ahead of his time actually. In fact, what you are describing seems more like the Machiavellianism of Renaissance Europe. A school of thought that is formed in the turmoil of Europe over the centuries prior.

China for large chunks of its history has been unified, and existed in a state of relative peace among its inhabitants. Whereas Europe, even till now, has always been fragmented. There has always been lots of competing powers. That creates the perfect environment to nurture the kinds of ideas, and notions you are attributing to the east asians. The chinese are what they are now largely because of the machinations of the CCP. A CCP whose founder, Mao, was a student of the west especially Classical Liberalism.

because the chinese pushed their language on everyone else and assimilated similar looking asians. it would be like if the french or russians had succeeded in making all of europe speak their language and adopt their ways.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I would laugh my ass off if a deadly plague swept across China<45><Lmaoo>

Karma's a bitch, motheflucker!

 

[MicroBrew]

never the goal. something only the establishment plebs at the cfr middle tiers and lower tier people believe.

It was always stated by Rummy and the rest of the Neocons that Iraqis would be only too happy to see us. That after Saddam's army was defeated, things would quickly settle down and Iraq would be a democratic country, a country that would then influence the rest of the MidEast in a positive manner.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Well, you say Confucianism gives a "different impression," based on the Wikii and then have not said what the differences are or how the source would reach these conclusions.

Therefore, I can not fairly respond to your protests I'm afraid.

By the way, I would recommend "The Analects of Confucius: A Philosophical Translation" translated by Rogert T. Ames and Henry Rosment Jr. It captures a lot of the meaning, though the language is difficult because it tries to match the original Chinese and academic standards.

As for, the ruminations on the "peace" of unified China (I think Vietnam would differ in opinion, or the vassal states in Korea, or the invasions from the Mongols and Manchurian would differ. Isolation did not equal "peace" in the modern, American interpretation of the word ) if we assume this peace existed, hmm, what of the people who lived in the peaceful empire? As it a harmonious dream or contemptuous prison of filial slavery?

When you read about the slave labor worked to death on the Great Wall, one starts to understand a bit, the horrific cruelty of the empire, the ruling magistrate, or in the links of filial piety one might start to see deeper into why China's past is one of sorrow and outrage. That's just the chapter leading up to Maoism.

As well, to be honest you're not arguing otherwise, nor perhaps are arguing from an understanding of Chinese history, philosophy, personal experience, or it seems from an understanding of these ideas.

How knowledgeable are you personally?

Allow me ask a few simple questions:

How long have you studied Chinese history, philosophy, and principles?

How many times have you traveled to China or Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, or the Far East?

Have you ever lived in any of these places?

How many Chinese people have you spoken to and discussed ideas with? Do you have any street knowledge to go with any possible book knowledge. Any Chinese friends with a high level of education?

How much do you understand about cultural theory in general, and about how theories like, oh, Power Distance, relate to Mainland ideas?

Have you ever lived in China?

How good are your Chinese language skills?

I would like to know, if you do not mind.

The difference, I assumed, you already stated. Christianity is good natured, Confucianism is harsh to fellow man. I interpreted from what you wrote, that Christianity is why people became moral in the West. And that the chinese never have an equivalent to Christianity, so they can never become humanistic, or moral. Confucianism is bad, and that is what the chinese have always had.

But from the wiki article, Confucianism does not seem so bad. I dont see from the wiki article why the chinese behave as you say. Its actually ahead of its time. Its even older than Christianity.

Whatever strife, and turmoil China has been through, Europe has met that correspondingly. I am under the impression, you are stating West is good because of Christianity, while East is bad because of confucianism. I just dont see how.

because the chinese pushed their language on everyone else and assimilated similar looking asians. it would be like if the french or russians had succeeded in making all of europe speak their language and adopt their ways.

Nah, Mongorian, Japanese, Korean, Thairand, have different languages.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I would laugh my ass off if a deadly plague swept across China<45><Lmaoo>

Karma's a bitch, motheflucker!

Several times in the past it has. In fact, a lot of plagues that afflicted the West came out of China or the East.