China has a bigger problem than the trade war - a 'mountain of debt'

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-...war-is-massive-debt-a-bigger-problem/10055192
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It's been a few weeks since Donald Trump fired the opening salvo in a trade war with China, slapping tariffs on a range of Chinese-made goods.

Beijing retaliated with tariffs of its own — and since then, the rhetoric on both sides has been unrepentant.

Much of the focus has been on nervous financial markets, and how the war could affect the fortunes of US farmers and manufacturers — but how do things look from China's side?

Is the trade war the biggest threat to China's economy, or does the country have more pressing problems — like its massive debt?

Dinny McMahon, who spent a decade covering China for the Wall Street Journal, says while Beijing obviously isn't welcoming the trade war, it's also unlikely to be crippled by it.

That's because China's economy is no longer driven by exports.

"In 2007, net exports contributed about 9 per cent to China's GDP. Last year we were down to 2 per cent," McMahon says.

"Exports aren't the be all and end all for the Chinese economy, as they once were."

On top of that, he says, the US only accounted for about 19 per cent of China's exports last year.

"So the ... trade conflict with China isn't perhaps the bludgeon that Donald Trump believes that it is, and certainly once would have been," McMahon says.

The big problem for China, he says, is that the trade war isn't happening in isolation.

Massive debt and ghost cities
China is also dealing with a "mountain of debt" racked up at a massive pace over the past decade, as it raced to catch up with the "rich world".

"Since 2008 China has been on this massive debt-fuelled binge," McMahon says.

"It has been fuelled by debt at every step of the way, to a point where now Chinese debt levels are in excess of those in the United States."

The biggest problem isn't the overall levels of debt, McMahon says, but the pace at which it's been accumulated.

He says that around a decade ago, China's debt levels were about 160 per cent of the size of its GDP.

"Now it's somewhere between 280 and 300 per cent," he says.

When other countries have accumulated debt that quickly, they have "almost invariably experienced a financial crisis", McMahon says.

"That's like the United States before the sub-prime crisis, or Thailand before the Asian financial crisis," he says.

A lot of the money China borrowed from state banks was invested in infrastructure. Some of the construction was useful, but the non-stop building boom also created 'ghost cities'.

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PHOTO: A ghost city in Baodi District, about 110 kilometres from Beijing. It has around 3,000 completed villas but the occupancy rate is just 10 per cent. (Getty: VCG)

It's worth reading the full article to get an idea of the kind of trouble China might be headed into. Australia is probably going to feel the shockwave of any kind of crash in China with how resource heavy our economy is. This is an interesting addition:

What could come next in the trade war?
So what could China's next move in the trade war be?

Ratcheting up its own tariffs could be one option.

"But the big problem here is that China exports to the United States far more than the United States exports to China," McMahon says.

"So Donald Trump can keep saying we are going to impose more and more tariffs, and China will hit its limits of what it can impose tariffs on before the US gets to its upper limit."
 
So what could China's next move in the trade war be?

some economists expect them to devalue their currency.

Currency wars arise in a condition of too much debt and too little growth. Economic powers try to steal growth from their trading partners by devaluing their currencies to promote exports and import inflation.
If Trump imposes 25% tariffs on Chinese goods, China could simply devalue their currency by 25%. That would make Chinese goods cheaper for U.S. buyers by the same amount as the tariff. The net effect on price would be unchanged and Americans could keep buying Chinese goods at the same price in dollars.

The impact of such a massive devaluation would not be limited to the trade war. A cheaper yuan exports deflation from China to the U.S. and makes it harder for the Fed to meet its inflation target.

Also, the last two times China tried to devalue its currency, August 2015 and December 2015, U.S. stock markets crashed by over 11% in a matter of a few weeks. So, if the trade war escalates as I expect, don’t worry about China dumping Treasuries or imposing tariffs.

Watch the currency. That’s where China will strike back. When they do, U.S. stock markets will be the first victims.
https://dailyreckoning.com/prepare-for-a-chinese-maxi-devaluation/
 
some economists expect them to devalue their currency.

I'm not sure how viable it is given how freely floated their currency really is nowadays. It is a huge strain on an economy to peg an economy and can come with a lot of opportunity costs (ie: huge cash reserves).

In addition as quoted below the exports market is down to 2% of the Chinese economy, and it is the exports markets (and tourism) that flourish with lower currency value. I don't know if it's as viable as it was in the past.

That's because China's economy is no longer driven by exports.

"In 2007, net exports contributed about 9 per cent to China's GDP. Last year we were down to 2 per cent," McMahon says.

"Exports aren't the be all and end all for the Chinese economy, as they once were."

On top of that, he says, the US only accounted for about 19 per cent of China's exports last year.
 
I am sure that Trump is ramping up pressure on China because of this debt to get them to come to the table and make a trade deal. This would be the "Art of the Deal"
 
Why don't they just lower taxes on the rich so that the money will eventually trickle down and create more tax revenue?
Seems like an easy fix to me.
 
Why don't they just lower taxes on the rich so that the money will eventually trickle down and create more tax revenue?
Seems like an easy fix to me.

I think flooding their country with refugees would work better in this situation
 
Why don't they just lower taxes on the rich so that the money will eventually trickle down and create more tax revenue?
Seems like an easy fix to me.

For China, an uncontrollable rich man is a dangerous rich man.
 
I've been saying this all over the forum.

Chinese investment ghost towns are going to wipe people out all over the world.
 
Why don't they just lower taxes on the rich so that the money will eventually trickle down and create more tax revenue?
Seems like an easy fix to me.

The rich Chinese already pays way lower tax than they actually should. Tax evasion is pretty much the accepted norm in China.
 
For China, an uncontrollable rich man is a dangerous rich man.

Any uncontrollable rich man in China can and will be reigned in by Xi. That's pretty much what's been going on with his "anti-corruption" sweep. No rich man in China can get to where he is without buying favors from politicians or government-linked corps. They just have to pray that they don't piss Xi off.

I've been saying this all over the forum.

Chinese investment ghost towns are going to wipe people out all over the world.

How so? Just curious.
 
Why don't they just lower taxes on the rich so that the money will eventually trickle down and create more tax revenue?
Seems like an easy fix to me.

errr your german. have those syrian doctors saved germany yet ?
 
Any uncontrollable rich man in China can and will be reigned in by Xi. That's pretty much what's been going on with his "anti-corruption" sweep. No rich man in China can get to where he is without buying favors from politicians or government-linked corps. They just have to pray that they don't piss Xi off.



How so? Just curious.

They're investment properties built with the idea that they would be occupied and the investors would recoup the costs of construction.

We're talking about thousands of million dollar villas with no occupants that are already falling apart.
 
China's economy is a house of cards.

And add that China has terrible record of massive civil wars and you can see that things aren't too Rosey with China.
 
BTW we know China is going to collapse/fragment. We're counting on it and it will be interesting to see how our debt China holds is handled.
 
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