Crime Chicago: Mass shootings & Gun Violence megathread

[Madmick]

I'm too lazy, you indicated the number shot in those cities and I was pointing out perhaps there were other shooting there over the weekend making the number of victims higher. I was curious if you had done the research before you posted a statement or not.

So did your numbers take this into consideration? I'm just curious.

My writing is more precise than your reading.

 

[Mike_Tyson_fan36]

@Mike_Tyson_fan36 was destroyed in this thread.

You wish David Duke Jr.

 

[HomeCheese]

My writing is more precise than your reading.

59 shot, 7 fatally in Chicago weekend shootings
Here was the tally for the weekend in Chicago. 7 killed, and 52 more shot.

Comparatively, the El Paso and Dayton shootings saw 31 killed, and 70 injured, but note the injured weren't necessarily shooting victims.

Maybe. I guess you are comparing a whole city to two shootings. I can see that but it was not super clear to me exactly what the number you were quoting meant so I ask a follow up. I'm interested in what the total number would be.

 

[Starman]

White Families often could not afford slaves so what did they did was rented them. Owning and renting are completely different.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...viral-post-gets-it-wrong-extent-slavery-1860/

I'm not sure how you think your claim undermines mine. Did you read the article? They admit that less than 1% of white Americans owned slaves (they actually name it as 1.4%, because that's what they read in the meme they are arguing against, but the real number is actually even less), and then engage in a series of mental gymnastics to push the numbers up.

Specifically, the person they are quoting for their argument punched the number up by not counting any states that had outlawed slavery.

Seriously. Think about how stupid that is. 'I'm going to tell you what percentage of white Americans owned slaves, and in order to get that number, I'm going to discount all the states where white Americans didn't own slaves, and only calculate the states where they did.'

It's stupid and dishonest. Please do better.

Slaves did not fare better at all. Many slaves were not allowed to read or write because the slaveholders feared that they would rebel or try to escape. Slaves were often lynched as punishment for attempting to learn. They were also regularly abused sexually by the slave masters.

In the entire history of America, a total of 4,743 people were lynched. This includes whites as well as blacks. Yes, whites were lynched too. You can find the numbers yourself if you'd like, or I can post them if you're too lazy.

Contrast that with the average of 4,472 black men who were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. At the rate police are currently killing black criminals, it would take cops 40 years to kill as many black men as have died at the hands of other black men in 2012 alone.

Or contrast that with the fact that over 1,400 more black Americans murdered other blacks in the last two years than were lynched in the entire 243 years of American history.

If black lives really mattered, you'd be focused on the blacks in this country today who are being murdered by other blacks, instead of focusing all your attention on the plight of people you don't know, never met, and don't care about either.

The only reason they were allowed to breed was so they could generate wealth for the slaveholders. a lot of families were also torn apart and sold off to different slave owners across the country.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-ushistory/chapter/slavery-in-the-u-s/

http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/freedom/1609-1865/essays/aafamilies.htm

https://spartacus-educational.com/USASeducation.htm

I don't care why they were allowed to live or why they were allowed to breed. The fact is their survival rate far exceeded the survival rate of whites who came to this country in bondage.

50-75% of whites who came to this country in bondage died before their contracts finished.

Compared to blacks, you can see a stark difference in the survival rate. Congress outlawed the African slave trade in 1808. And of the 10 to 15 million Africans who were transplanted to the Americas, only about 400,000 went to North America (which includes Canada), while all the others (tens of millions!) went to South America.

Despite African slave trading having been outlawed for more than 5 decades, the slave population had reached nearly 4 million by 1860. Black Americans had increased to 10 times their original number, due primarily to them getting married, having children, and starting families.

I'm not justifying slavery or mitigating the horrors of it, but simply pointing out that whites often times suffered far harsher conditions during their bondage than blacks did, but you never hear this mentioned by the mainstream media. Nor is it even mentioned in most history books. And there certainly aren't any plaques or memorials to commemorate the suffering or hardships these people suffered.

I do give you credit for one thing, though. At least you've read enough of my posts to understand you can no longer just cry "bullshit!" Now you're actually doing a modicum of research on your own, probably for the first time in your life. Believe it or not, this is a huge step in the right direction, and I encourage you to continue to research this topic for yourself.

And please, for the love of God, don't just read third-rate blogs you agree with. Try reading books and essays written by people you disagree with. I used to be an ignorant leftist myself when I was younger. Believe me, I know how you feel and where you're coming from. Leftism cannot survive honest, objective critique. Allowing myself to listen to the opinions of people I disagreed with, and actively seeking out their reasoning for feeling that way, is what allowed me to escape the hateful, destructive ideology of leftism. I hope someday you will be able to liberate yourself as well.

 

[Lucifer Alpha]

You wish David Duke Jr.

Not a fan of Ilhan Omar, sorry.

 

[Madmick]

Maybe. I guess you are comparing a whole city to two shootings.

Not maybe. I referenced the two shootings in name and victim/injured totals. I gave no indication I was comparing shootings for those cities as whole.

 

[Mike_Tyson_fan36]

In the entire history of America, a total of 4,743 people were lynched. This includes whites as well as blacks. Yes, whites were lynched too. You can find the numbers yourself if you'd like, or I can post them if you're too lazy.

Contrast that with the average of 4,472 black men who were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. At the rate police are currently killing black criminals, it would take cops 40 years to kill as many black men as have died at the hands of other black men in 2012 alone.

Or contrast that with the fact that over 1,400 more black Americans murdered other blacks in the last two years than were lynched in the entire 243 years of American history.

If black lives really mattered, you'd be focused on the blacks in this country today who are being murdered by other blacks, instead of focusing all your attention on the plight of people you don't know, never met, and don't care about either.

Why are you bring up black on black murders when we are talking about blacks getting lynched as punishment for learning? I know that whites were lynched as well genius. That does not excuse the number of blacks who were lynched also.

I don't care why they were allowed to live or why they were allowed to breed. The fact is their survival rate far exceeded the survival rate of whites who came to this country in bondage.

50-75% of whites who came to this country in bondage died before their contracts finished.

Compared to blacks, you can see a stark difference in the survival rate. Congress outlawed the African slave trade in 1808. And of the 10 to 15 million Africans who were transplanted to the Americas, only about 400,000 went to North America (which includes Canada), while all the others (tens of millions!) went to South America.

Despite African slave trading having been outlawed for more than 5 decades, the slave population had reached nearly 4 million by 1860. Black Americans had increased to 10 times their original number, due primarily to them getting married, having children, and starting families.

I'm not justifying slavery or mitigating the horrors of it, but simply pointing out that whites often times suffered far harsher conditions during their bondage than blacks did, but you never hear this mentioned by the mainstream media. Nor is it even mentioned in most history books. And there certainly aren't any plaques or memorials to commemorate the suffering or hardships these people suffered.

I do give you credit for one thing, though. At least you've read enough of my posts to understand you can no longer just cry "bullshit!" Now you're actually doing a modicum of research on your own, probably for the first time in your life. Believe it or not, this is a huge step in the right direction, and I encourage you to continue to research this topic for yourself.

And please, for the love of God, don't just read third-rate blogs you agree with. Try reading books and essays written by people you disagree with. I used to be an ignorant leftist myself when I was younger. Believe me, I know how you feel and where you're coming from. Leftism cannot survive honest, objective critique. Allowing myself to listen to the opinions of people I disagreed with, and actively seeking out their reasoning for feeling that way, is what allowed me to escape the hateful, destructive ideology of leftism. I hope someday you will be able to liberate yourself as well.

Black Families still had far less rights compared to White families, It does not matter they had strong numbers because they were still considered inferior to whites. After Slavery many experienced racism, Jim Crow laws and not to mention they're entire communities destroyed by white mobs.

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/africanamericanheritage/reconstruction.htm

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/grant-kkk/

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/06/25/rosewood-florida-massacre

https://daily.jstor.org/the-devastation-of-black-wall-street/

And for the record I'm black myself.

 

[MMABrooklyn]

Wrong. American might and American wealth wasn’t built off the backs of slaves out in the fields picking cotton and peanuts in the south.

How can an American be so ignorant about their own country.

American Slaves didn't only work in cotton fields and grow peanuts. American Slaves built Wall Street, built rail roads, built cities, worked in shipping, grew all of America Cash Crops, etc etc. Slavery in the U.S was the largest part of the U.S economy, worth more than the rest of the economy combined:

"by 1860, there were more millionaires (slaveholders all) living in the lower Mississippi Valley than anywhere else in the United States. In the same year, the nearly 4 million American slaves were worth some $3.5 billion, making them the largest single financial asset in the entire U.S. economy, worth more than all manufacturing and railroads combined."

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/06/slavery-made-america/373288/

I know you want to downplay the role Cotton Picking in building the U.S, but you only show your ignorance about King Cotton and the country you live in:


"Let’s start with the value of the slave population. Steven Deyle shows that in 1860, the value of the slaves was “roughly three times greater than the total amount invested in banks,” and it was “equal to about seven times the total value of all currency in circulation in the country, three times the value of the entire livestock population, twelve times the value of the entire U.S. cotton crop and forty-eight times the total expenditure of the federal government that year.”

"Now, the value of cotton: Slave-produced cotton “brought commercial ascendancy to New York City, was the driving force for territorial expansion in the Old Southwest and fostered trade between Europe and the United States,” according to Gene Dattel. In fact, cotton productivity, no doubt due to the sharecropping system that replaced slavery, remained central to the American economy for a very long time: “Cotton was the leading American export from 1803 to 1937.”

"What did cotton production and slavery have to do with Great Britain? The figures are astonishing. As Dattel explains: “Britain, the most powerful nation in the world, relied on slave-produced American cotton for over 80 per cent of its essential industrial raw material. English textile mills accounted for 40 percent of Britain’s exports. One-fifth of Britain’s twenty-two million people were directly or indirectly involved with cotton textiles.”


You should think before you try to downplay your fellow country men and women. You don't know WTF you're talking about.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/why-was-cotton-king/

 

[MMABrooklyn]

Any wealth that was created by slavery was destroyed at the end of the Civil War when southern cities were burned to the ground, and slaves were freed with no compensation to the plantation owners who lost everything.

American Schooling as failed you. Are you claiming, right here on Sherdog, that the U.S went Bankrupt after the civil war?

Yo, the stupidity

Additionally, you have no clue how wealth works. Let me share a couple of facts with you that you are doubtless unfamiliar with.

1.) Less than 1% of Americans owned slaves at the HEIGHT of slavery.

2.) Nearly half of all whites who came to the colonies came in bondage, and they were treated far worse than African slaves.

3.) A much greater percentage of free blacks owned slaves than free whites. As I said, less than 1% of whites owned slaves. Free blacks were far more likely to own slaves. In some states, as much as 36% of free blacks owned African slaves. If you don’t believe me you can check the census records.

4.) 90% of wealth is lost by the second generation, meaning you are far more likely than not to blow through whatever money your parents leave you. Over 95% of wealth is lost by the third generation, meaning if you don’t blow the money your parents left you, your kids will.

1. "The 1860 census shows that in the states that would soon secede from the Union, an average of more than 32 percent of white families owned slaves. Some states had far more slave owners (46 percent in South Carolina, 49 percent in Mississippi) while some had far less (20 percent in Arkansas)."

https://www.history.com/news/5-myths-about-slavery

2. So what happened, how did their bondage end? I know dumbas5 are not comparing indentured servitude to CHATTEL SLAVERY. Nearly 100% of all Black Americans were Chattel Slaves. I dare you to bring up that talking point.

3. Free Black people often own their family, so you can have ownership rights in courts, and with the state. You should know this. Your parents failed you.

4. 10%> 0%. Almost all slaves didn't have wealth. Also if the wealth was lost, where did it go, into the ether(that's what I'm serving you right now)?

 

[MMABrooklyn]

All this is a moot point anyway, as there was no wealth left in the south for children to inherit after the Civil War was over
Because no white person alive today has one dime to their name that came about as a result of slavery, which ended a century and a half ago. And if you want to argue differently, it’s time you bring some facts, of which thus far you are sorely lacking.

What Southern dynasties post-Civil War resurgence tell us about how wealth is really handed down:

"Emancipation should have laid waste to the Southern aristocracy. The economy was built on the forced labor of enslaved Africans, and almost half the Confederacy’s wealth was invested in owning humans.

But less than two decades after the Civil War, Southern slave-owning dynasties were back on top of the economic ladder, according to an ambitious new analysis from Leah Boustan of Princeton University, Katherine Eriksson of the University of California at Davis and Philipp Ager of the University of Southern Denmark."

https://www.nber.org/papers/w25700?utm_campaign=ntwh&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntwg2

If you really think that white people today, even one, inherited wealth or power from their great, great, great, great, great, great grandparents, give me one specific, concrete example. Tell me the name of the person, and tell me how much of what they have came from their ancestors.

I can do even better, how about Corporations capital generated off Slave Labor:

-JP Morgan Chase
-New York Life Insurance
-Aetna Health Insurance
-Wells Fargo
-USA Today
-Norfolk Southern
-Lehman Brothers
-Bank of America
-CSX
-Brown Brothers Harriman
-Brooks Brothers
-AIG
-Brown University
-Harvard
-Princeton
-Columbia University
-Yale
-Rutgers
-Brown
-Dartmouth
-Tiffany's

and so much more.

Any money black people generate today, they get to keep. They don’t get to keep any of the so-called wealth their distant ancestors created picking peanuts in a field because that wealth was lost long ago. Nor would they have any claim on it, even if it wasn’t.

Wouldn't have any claim even if it wasn't what? Why not?

The Median Black family has a net worth of $1,700 if you remove depreciating assets. The median white family has a net worth of $110,000

The median Black family net worth is projected to hit $0 in 30 years. That's what happen if a caste is built on Chattel Slavery, Black Codes, and Jim Crow.

All that aside, not every black American is descended from slaves.

No sh*t Sherlock, they won't receive reparations. Reparations is for the American Descendants of Slavery.

Nothing happened to blacks that didn’t also happen to every other race on Earth.

This is America, that's what we are talking about. Not the Earth, and here in these United States, Black Americans went through a lot more than other Americans. Nothing happen to Japanese Americans that didn't happen to American Descendants of Slavery yet reparations was still paid.

If we want to punish descendants for the sins of their fathers, let’s start by having Africans pay their fair share of reparations, since they were the ones who sold their fellow blacks into slavery to begin with.

African States involved in the Slave Trade should pay reparations.

O, You think this is a Black vs white thing instead of it being about lineage, and debts owed.

And while we’re at it, do you even know the etymology of the word “slave”? It comes from the word “Slav”, in reference to the Slavic people, white Europeans who were enslaved by Africans in such huge numbers that their very names came to mean “slave.”

Do you know the etymology of the words: Let the Slavic people take it up with the Romans, or whomever enslaved them.

So how about Africans start paying reparations to all the descendants of the white Europeans they enslaved, and all the black Africans they sold, and then we’ll talk about how much Americans, who freed slaves, owe to the descendants of the people they freed.

Take it up with the North Africans. Make sure you bring receipts

Are you African by the way, or American? You're more concern about people on the other side of the planet then your fellow Americans? That's not a good look.

 

[panamaican]

I'm late to this thread. On what page did the conversation about mental health issue start?

Personally, we should probably try to get more mental health clinics into those neighborhoods. I think the ACA covers therapy but they don't advertise that benefit enough.

This is low hanging fruit, we should address it sooner than later. Just sayin'.

 

[mixcontactsport]

I'm late to this thread. On what page did the conversation about mental health issue start?

Personally, we should probably try to get more mental health clinics into those neighborhoods. I think the ACA covers therapy but they don't advertise that benefit enough.

This is low hanging fruit, we should address it sooner than later. Just sayin'.

That's a good start, but you are not attacking the problem at it's source. This gang lifestyle is affecting more than just Chicago.

 

[Crash Lance]

Not a fan of Ilhan Omar, sorry.

Why did someone give you yellow cards?

 

[Mike_Tyson_fan36]

@Starman don't try to hide now. Address what me and @MMABrooklyn have said.

 

[Starman]

Why are you bring up black on black murders when we are talking about blacks getting lynched as punishment for learning?

1.) How many blacks were lynched for "learning"? Slaves were expensive, lynching was rare, and the lynching of slaves was extremely rare. How many examples can you find of this?

2.) I bring up blacks killing blacks because you think black slaves, who have been dead for over a century, should be given some form of financial restitution for a wrong that was never done to them, by people who never did that wrong. And yet you ignore the more immediate, and far more destructive danger to blacks, which is other blacks.

I know that whites were lynched as well genius. That does not excuse the number of blacks who were lynched also.

And do you think the descendants of white people who were forced to come to this country in bondage are owed reparations as well? Do you think the descendants of white people who were lynched are owed reparations as well?

Black Families still had far less rights compared to White families, It does not matter they had strong numbers because they were still considered inferior to whites. After Slavery many experienced racism, Jim Crow laws and not to mention they're entire communities destroyed by white mobs.

So now reparations goes beyond slavery. Now you want reparations for Jim Crow? Again, should the Irish receive reparations as well?

And why stop there. The overwhelming majority of interracial violence is black on white, and has been for years, specifically in rape and murder. When do you think blacks, as a whole, should start to pay reparations to all the whites or descendants of whites that they have victimized over the years?

And for the record I'm black myself.

I never assumed any differently.

Starman don't try to hide now. Address what me and @MMABrooklyn have said.

Why on Earth would you say something so foolish? Have I shown any sign of "hiding"? How old are you?

 

[panamaican]

That's a good start, but you are not attacking the problem at it's source. This gang lifestyle is affecting more than just Chicago.

You mean the mental health crisis is affecting more than just Chicago? I agree.

The source, as I'm sure you're going to agree, is the refusal to address this nationwide mental health crisis in urban areas. But since this thread was about Chicago, I didn't want to go too broad.

 

[Nate banged my mom]

Why are you bring up black on black murders when we are talking about blacks getting lynched as punishment for learning? I know that whites were lynched as well genius. That does not excuse the number of blacks who were lynched also.



Black Families still had far less rights compared to White families, It does not matter they had strong numbers because they were still considered inferior to whites. After Slavery many experienced racism, Jim Crow laws and not to mention they're entire communities destroyed by white mobs.

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/africanamericanheritage/reconstruction.htm

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/grant-kkk/

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/06/25/rosewood-florida-massacre

https://daily.jstor.org/the-devastation-of-black-wall-street/

And for the record I'm black myself.

You got absolutely wrecked by indisputable facts. Save face, breath relax, go read some books and go complain to the homies about about big bad whitey while blacks savagely slaughter each other day in and day out in the streets. 24/7 hold your people accountable. Until blacks hold other blacks accountable we do not give a flying fuck. That’d cold hard truth. Once blacks hold each other accountable, Ive got absolutely no problem standing besides you/them. No problem what so ever. But it’s absolutely pathetic that you’ll protest when a cop kills a black dude but as you slaughter each other daily,, ahhh no bigggy no change needed silence. It’s weak as fuck. Ohh but a bad cop comes along and it’s time to riot and change the entire police force . Gimme a fuckin break no sympathy here. And I know many others who feel the same. It’s overplayed no nobody cares you played yourselves. As children take drive by bullets to the dome on the reg nothing but silence from you and your people. Good grief

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

You mean the mental health crisis is affecting more than just Chicago? I agree.

The source, as I'm sure you're going to agree, is the refusal to address this nationwide mental health crisis in urban areas. But since this thread was about Chicago, I didn't want to go too broad.

Mental Illness as an excuse for murder is a luxury that only whites have. It's barely even acknowledged as a factor for black crime when it is systemic. So much cheaper and easier just to lock them up instead of tangling with the societal rot that causes it.

 

[nicapica]

Needs more mental health facilitiesand less violent games. None of these shootings would have happened if therapy was more prevalent in these areas. Also ban violent video games in the Chicago area.

 

[panamaican]

Mental Illness as an excuse for murder is a luxury that only whites have. It's barely even acknowledged as a factor for black crime when it is systemic. So much cheaper and easier just to lock them up instead of tangling with the societal rot that causes it.

No, no, that's not it at all. It's just that people in general have finally realized the role of mental health in gun violence.

If you don't believe me, wait until we have a crop of threads discussing the pre-violence trauma experienced by inner city kids prior to committing crimes. It's coming.

Have faith in your fellow man...