Catholic Diocese Kicks Out Boy Scouts, Keeps $$ They Raised

[MC Paul Barman]

besides, Loonowski.... people commit crimes, not organizations/institutions.

It's clear and apparent that the Church's doctrine on the issue is that of condemnation towards those actions. That's no mystery.
The fact is that one is less likely to be sexually assaulted by an adult within that institution then when compared to other institutions.

But this will fall on dumb ears. because again, little about you is ever concerned about the truth of the matter.

 

[jackietreehorn8]

Someone isn't concerned with the truth of the matter:



http://www.hofstra.edu/pdf/about/administration/provost/hofhrz/hofhrz_s03_shakeshaft.pdf

Not true.

There is the one 'shuffling' example that got alot of attention with the press regarding the church.
And your concern about it only happening in the church is unfounded.... Shankshaft points out many more examples of shuffling happening in the public school with offenders.

If you're going to pretend to have all the facts on your side, you ought to link to something that backs you up. Nothing you've said was covered in the paper you linked to.

 

[elmo_1968]

I don't know all of the particulars.
But I do know that you're basing all of your knowledge on it off of one article you linked.

I do know that the truth is usually more nuanced.

If you have more info, I'm interested. But simply saying there is probably more info out there is just an appeal to ignorance. This is the Washington Post, one of the country's most revered newspapers.

From the article:
"De Celles did not respond to phone messages and e-mails requesting comment.

But the diocese confirmed that St. Raymond was keeping the money raised by the Cubs."

 

[Kevin Rudd]

besides, Loonowski.... people commit crimes, not organizations/institutions.

It's clear and apparent that the Church's doctrine on the issue is that of condemnation towards those actions. That's no mystery.
The fact is that one is less likely to be sexually assaulted by an adult within that institution then when compared to other institutions.

But this will fall on dumb ears. because again, little about you is ever concerned about the truth of the matter.

One the one hand they are condemning it and on the other hand they are paying out pittances to the victims and making them sign no liability confidentiality clauses.

http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/280

For you to defend it speaks volumes to your character.

 

[Bukowski82]

Paul, paul, paul... Blindly following a Religion that not only has not even a single shred of evidence, but teaches about Noah's Arc, a Virgin Birth, People walking on water, etc. is one thing... Following that Religion in the face of all the Ignorance they show certain groups of people is another still... But to then take the most hideous of crimes committed in DROVES by the priests, which are supposed to be instruments of your God and try to minimalize it is just absolutely insane. The Vatican has been protecting Child Molesters for a very long time and the believers have turned a blind eye to it. The ambivalence you and other people from the 'Church' show these crimes makes you all party to them... IMHO.

It's madness.

 

[deise69]

besides, Loonowski.... people commit crimes, not organizations/institutions.

It's clear and apparent that the Church's doctrine on the issue is that of condemnation towards those actions. That's no mystery.
The fact is that one is less likely to be sexually assaulted by an adult within that institution then when compared to other institutions.

But this will fall on dumb ears. because again, little about you is ever concerned about the truth of the matter.

WOW, I never knew Bill Donohue posted on Sherdog.

 

[boss429]

besides, Loonowski.... people commit crimes, not organizations/institutions.

It's clear and apparent that the Church's doctrine on the issue is that of condemnation towards those actions. That's no mystery.
The fact is that one is less likely to be sexually assaulted by an adult within that institution then when compared to other institutions.

But this will fall on dumb ears. because again, little about you is ever concerned about the truth of the matter.

Lol, that would actually mean something if you don't take numbers into account, there are 456,904 Priests Bishops and Deacons in the entire world, now compare that to 3.2 million teachers in the United States alone and the fact that these 2 are even on the same radar becomes quite disturbing.

You would think that with over 1.3 Billion members around the world the catholic church could find 500,000 Leaders that didn't feel the need to molest little boys.

Then you have to factor in the public school system also has to deal with two genders instead of just one and it's really no surprise there numbers would be significantly higher based on the fact that there are like a thousand times more of them in the world.

The fact that the worlds supposed "moral compass" has as many allegations against them as they do should be pretty disturbing to you as a follower but instead you chose to come back with "Well at least we're not as bad as these guy's" argument in an attempt to deflect the spotlight away from the church when really they should focus on cleaning up their own back yard before concerning themselves with someone elses. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, as they say.

It boggles my mind that people continue to defend and support this organisation when even the highest ranking member is involved in shit like this. https://www.google.ca/search?q=Catholic+Pope+Francis+charged%2C+trial+set%2C+for+trafficking+orphans&oq=Catholic+Pope+Francis+charged%2C+trial+set%2C+for+trafficking+orphans But hey, I guess when something has been so ingrained in people's lives for such a long time it get's harder and harder to admit to yourself that you've been lied to and your church is no more Moral or Corruption free then any other major corporation, religion is big business my friend, and the church wants to get them that Anderson Silva money.

Sources:
-http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372
-http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1200999.htm

 

[Bukowski82]

^ Absolutely nailed it...

 

[KrazyKanadian]

When has the Catholic Church ever not been just a business?

 

[James Keith]

Lol, that would actually mean something if you don't take numbers into account, there are 456,904 Priests Bishops and Deacons in the entire world, now compare that to 3.2 million teachers in the United States alone and the fact that these 2 are even on the same radar becomes quite disturbing.

I'm disturbed by the way mathematics is being used here.

 

[FinalFight]

boss429 handled it like his name suggests.

 

[HIMBOB]

Don't you dare try to get between the church and its money, you fucking evil devils.

A pox on thee.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

they got off lightly
this is the nicest way the catholic church has ever fucked a bunch of young boys ..cash instead of prison love mode

Standingapplause.gif

 

[elmo_1968]

Don't you dare try to get between the church and its money, you fucking evil devils.

A pox on thee.

$2,800 is pocket change to the Catholic Church.

But I'm hoping this signals a drift back to the case in OP.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

www.washingtonpost.com/local/n-va-p...b9c22c-a0dd-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html

Cliffs:
-Boy Scout chapter sponsored by Catholic diocese raises $2,800.
-Chapter votes to allow gays.
-Diocese stops sponsoring them, sponsors new group banning gays
-Boy Scouts ask for some of the money they raised.
-Diocese tells them to f$@# off.

The Catholic Church poses as a church and enjoys all of the breaks, but actions like these are more indicative of a political org or business.

There's a couple of things that don't seem quite right about that story.

I'm pretty sure that my son's scout troop has their own bank account. In fact the only time I ever see the church rep's is when they come in each year and tell how much they are paying for the boys membership/uniforms/etc. - usually a thousand or so for the whole pack.

Just a thought here, but it could be that the church kept the funds because they've already payed the boys scout dues and other essentials - those are paid in the boys names and remain paid even if they go to another pack.

One last thought that doesn't necessarily relate to the story, but I find it hard to accuse anyone of being greedy against the scouts - $24 dues, $25 First class shirt, $9 scout book, $12 hat, $5-7 neckerchief, another $3 for the slide, $1 per pack numeral, $3 patches, etc. etc. Then $200+ for camping trips, $2100 for the Jamboree?

 

[HIMBOB]

When has the Catholic Church ever not been just a business?

Seems like a needless distinction.

 

[Byron Carter]

Catholic Church shouldn't be sponsoring anything involving little boys.

Am I right?

 

[elmo_1968]

There's a couple of things that don't seem quite right about that story.

I'm pretty sure that my son's scout troop has their own bank account. In fact the only time I ever see the church rep's is when they come in each year and tell how much they are paying for the boys membership/uniforms/etc. - usually a thousand or so for the whole pack.

Just a thought here, but it could be that the church kept the funds because they've already payed the boys scout dues and other essentials - those are paid in the boys names and remain paid even if they go to another pack.

One last thought that doesn't necessarily relate to the story, but I find it hard to accuse anyone of being greedy against the scouts - $24 dues, $25 First class shirt, $9 scout book, $12 hat, $5-7 neckerchief, another $3 for the slide, $1 per pack numeral, $3 patches, etc. etc. Then $200+ for camping trips, $2100 for the Jamboree?

I tried via my own research to find out what "sponsor" means and I think(?) it means difft. things. The first is sort of like sponsor of the super bowl, you give some money and they mention your name. I found something else called a chartering org and it sounds more like what the Diocese in the story did. Perhaps the church at your son's group is the first kind of sponsor? But I don't really know and did ask if anyone could clarify this back in post #33.

The article quotes a Diocese spokesman as saying the money is being used for the new org, which suggests it hadn't all ready been spent on dues for the boys in the Cub Scout pack.

I don't know if the Scouts are greedy or not, but even if they are it doesn't justify taking money raised by Scouts in the name of the Scouts.

 

[evansusmc2]

He's actually correct. The level of philes and sexual assaults amongst the clergy is actually slightly lower than the average. It just receives massively disproportionate media attention.

Think about what you just said there. philia "amongst the clergy".

Out of all the groups, factions, bowling leagues, social clubs, book clubs, golf clubs, or any other organization you can think of etc etc etc... The LAST place you'd think to find s would be a religious organizations, RIGHT???

So that should answer your "disproportionate media attention" issue.

 

[SweetDaddySiki]

Think about what you just said there. philia "amongst the clergy".

Out of all the groups, factions, bowling leagues, social clubs, book clubs, golf clubs, or any other organization you can think of etc etc etc... The LAST place you'd think to find s would be a religious organizations, RIGHT???

So that should answer your "disproportionate media attention" issue.

So why don't we hear much about the problems with philia amongst hasidic rabbis? Or lurid documentaries about the institutionalized philia in Asian buddhist monasteries?

There are narratives and agendas being served here. Priests are less likely to be philes than the average population.