Law Cashless Society: Should Retail Stores & Restaurants be Allowed to Refuse Cash as a Legal Tender?

What if all the banks don't like a comment you liked 20 years ago and decide you're unworthy of a bank account?


Do you just die?

I am sure once the banks make themselves 100% necessary for all transactions and exchanges big or small, they won't even think of adding or raising fees.
 
I don't like cash so it doesn't bother me.

Cash only businesses tend to be money laundering operations usually too.
 
What if all the banks don't like a comment you liked 20 years ago and decide you're unworthy of a bank account?


Do you just die?

I am sure once the banks make themselves 100% necessary for all transactions and exchanges big or small, they won't even think of adding or raising fees.
People don't want to acknowledge it but the banks have a blacklist. It's not just for kkk Nazis. There is no law stopping them from blacklisting private individuals that just spout off about the banks
 
I don't care either way but while on this topic we really need to get rid of pennies. Literally they cost more to make than they are worth.

Both the cent and the nickel cost more to produce than their face value. However, I do believe the government makes the difference on cents and nickels up via seigniorage on the other denominations of circulating coinage.
 
So, we're hearing about national shortages on change now. A local Walmart near me is now letting customers know they can't make change and are pushing people to electronic transactions or round up to the nearest dollar in effect making you pay more for a product.

It's because the cash & coin services/logistics companies don't have, or can't have, enough employees on staff to handle the volume of dirty-ass coins, machines breaking, etc.

There's no doubt pallets upon pallets upon pallets of already rolled and boxed coins sitting in warehouses in all the cash & coin services/logistics companies across the country that just aren't being or can't be shipped.

It's true that there's a coin shortage, but the real issues has to do with a large chunk of them being cut off from general circulation by people who are keeping them in a jar at home in quarantine.

In the foreseeable future, I think we will see many more businesses putting up signs that ask customers to pay with the exact change or digital payment. An then after the pandemic, we're going to see an influx of coins back into circulations when people haul gallons bottles worth of coins out to their local Coinstar machines.


Exact Change Please: Walmart, Kroger, CVS Are Feeling The Coin Shortage
July 16, 2020

gettyimages-159627658_custom-2dabcb2b2c26fdb65025a454310a25143c4597cf-s800-c85.jpg

Stores around the U.S. are struggling with an unexpected shortage. (No, not toilet paper — sorry, we've already made that joke.) They're running low on coins.

Supermarkets and gas stations across the U.S. are asking shoppers to pay with a card or produce exact change when possible. Walmart has converted some of its self-checkout registers to accept only plastic. Kroger is offering to load change that would normally involve coins onto loyalty cards. Some Wawa gas stations are accepting coin rolls in exchange for bills.

The trouble began weeks ago, when the coronavirus pandemic delivered a bizarre double blow to the U.S. supply of quarters, dimes, nickels and even pennies. Social distancing and other safety measures slowed production of coins at the U.S. Mint. But also fewer coins made their way from customers to banks, coin-sorting kiosks and stores' cash registers as people holed up at home.

"The flow of coins through the economy ... kind of stopped," Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell told lawmakers in June.

That month, the Fed began rationing coins. Soon after, business groups — representing grocers, convenience stores, retailers, gas station operators and others — wrote to Powell and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin that the situation was an emergency.

"We were alarmed to hear that the system for distributing coins throughout the country is at the breaking point," they wrote on June 23, offering a series of suggestions for how to fix it. A week later, the Fed announced it would convene a U.S. Coin Task Force to address the matter.

"Like most retailers, we're experiencing the [effects] of the nationwide coin shortage," a Walmart spokesperson wrote to NPR on Thursday. "We're asking customers to pay with card or use correct change when possible if they need to pay with cash. Cash is welcome at all of our stores."

A CVS representative said the company is "encouraging customers, if possible, to pay for their purchases using exact cash, credit/debit card or check" and is working with banks to "minimize impact to our customers."

"Like many retailers and businesses, we are adjusting to the temporary shortage in several ways while still accepting cash," a Kroger spokesperson said in a statement, outlining various options customers are now offered instead of coin change.

One of those options — at both Kroger and Wawa — is to round up shoppers' amounts to donate to charity.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...mart-kroger-cvs-are-feeling-the-coin-shortage
 
It's true that there's a coin shortage, but the real issues has to do with a large chunk of them being cut off from general circulation by people who are keeping them in a jar at home in quarantine.

In the foreseeable future, I think we will see many more businesses putting up signs that ask customers to pay with the exact change or digital payment. An then after the pandemic, we're going to see an influx of coins back into circulations when people haul gallons bottles worth of coins out to their local Coinstar machines.


Exact Change Please: Walmart, Kroger, CVS Are Feeling The Coin Shortage
July 16, 2020

gettyimages-159627658_custom-2dabcb2b2c26fdb65025a454310a25143c4597cf-s800-c85.jpg

Stores around the U.S. are struggling with an unexpected shortage. (No, not toilet paper — sorry, we've already made that joke.) They're running low on coins.

Supermarkets and gas stations across the U.S. are asking shoppers to pay with a card or produce exact change when possible. Walmart has converted some of its self-checkout registers to accept only plastic. Kroger is offering to load change that would normally involve coins onto loyalty cards. Some Wawa gas stations are accepting coin rolls in exchange for bills.

The trouble began weeks ago, when the coronavirus pandemic delivered a bizarre double blow to the U.S. supply of quarters, dimes, nickels and even pennies. Social distancing and other safety measures slowed production of coins at the U.S. Mint. But also fewer coins made their way from customers to banks, coin-sorting kiosks and stores' cash registers as people holed up at home.

"The flow of coins through the economy ... kind of stopped," Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell told lawmakers in June.

That month, the Fed began rationing coins. Soon after, business groups — representing grocers, convenience stores, retailers, gas station operators and others — wrote to Powell and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin that the situation was an emergency.

"We were alarmed to hear that the system for distributing coins throughout the country is at the breaking point," they wrote on June 23, offering a series of suggestions for how to fix it. A week later, the Fed announced it would convene a U.S. Coin Task Force to address the matter.

"Like most retailers, we're experiencing the [effects] of the nationwide coin shortage," a Walmart spokesperson wrote to NPR on Thursday. "We're asking customers to pay with card or use correct change when possible if they need to pay with cash. Cash is welcome at all of our stores."

A CVS representative said the company is "encouraging customers, if possible, to pay for their purchases using exact cash, credit/debit card or check" and is working with banks to "minimize impact to our customers."

"Like many retailers and businesses, we are adjusting to the temporary shortage in several ways while still accepting cash," a Kroger spokesperson said in a statement, outlining various options customers are now offered instead of coin change.

One of those options — at both Kroger and Wawa — is to round up shoppers' amounts to donate to charity.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...mart-kroger-cvs-are-feeling-the-coin-shortage

I agree that hoarding is an issue, but it's much more than that. As a numismatist, I hoard coins myself.

But, unlike FRNs which have a lifespan of around five years, coinage has a lifespan of decades and sometimes close to a century.

Nevermind the fact that the U.S.Mint was minting 2020-dated coins still at the beginning of this year.

The bigger issue is distribution and the mechanism of circulation itself. Banks are hoarding for their customers instead of shipping them out via the cash & coin servicers, the cash & coin servicers aren't distributing their already-sorted-rolled-and-boxed inventory as regularly due to being short-handed, and coin-op businesses aren't operating to the capacity they were previously.

In short: I agree with the article you posted, haha.
 
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What if all the banks don't like a comment you liked 20 years ago and decide you're unworthy of a bank account?


Do you just die?

I am sure once the banks make themselves 100% necessary for all transactions and exchanges big or small, they won't even think of adding or raising fees.


This is something else worrying, for me.

Lets imagine a country like China, who actually use 'social credits' as a thing, to some extent. Imagine someone slags off the Chinese government in a cashless society - the government then contacts their bank and orders them to shut down that person's account. Bingo - the person no longer has any money, nor access to any money. They are then homeless and penniless.

It's a very dark street to go down, in some ways. Especially in this era where more and more people are becoming irate with their government and are taking very vocal means against them.

Hypocritical statement from me though as I never carry cash anyway. Just an observation.
 
One of the really pathetic aspects of this new reliance on cards is so many clerks can't make change these days. Even with the register to help them.

They literally can't work out how many quarters, nickels and dimes make 85 cents.
 
No one should be able to refuse legal tender, at least businesses. That's why it's legal, right?
 
I don't like cash so it doesn't bother me.

Cash only businesses tend to be money laundering operations usually too.

The retail stores and restaurants in this thread (which has a clear variable cost structure for each products sold) are terrible money-laundering conduits.

These days small-time money-launders may rely on the service sector, where it's much more difficult to discern the total revenues and cost for the service rendered (strip clubs, bars, casinos), but in an ironic twist, the biggest offenders no longer needs a bunch of cash-only laundromats like Al Capone, not when they can just quickly launders their dirty money digitally by the millions through the unscrupulous international banking system itself, with smurfing, round-tripping, ratholes, shell companies, foreign investment schemes, and auctioning objectively-valued collectibles (such as art).

The biggest money laundering operations in this century by far don't actually involve cash-only businesses, but the multi-national financial institutions themselves, including Danske Bank of Denmark with a staggering $200 Billion worth of dirty money deposited by their Russian Mobs and Oligarchs buddies, followed by Britain's HSBC and America's own Wachovia with their billionaire and millionaire customers from the Mexican and Colombian Drug Cartels.
 
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The retail stores and restaurants in this thread (which has a clear variable cost structure for each products sold) are terrible money-laundering conduits.

These days money-launders rely on service sector, where it's much more difficult to discern revenue and cost for the service rendered (strip clubs, bars, casinos), or through the banking system itself with smurfing, round-tripping, ratholes, and objectively-valued collectibles (such as art).
The retail stores and restaurants in this thread aren't cash only. The question seems to be about them going no cash.

I was talking about cash only operations like bars, clubs, and casinos when referencing cash only businesses.

Hope this helps.
 
The retail stores and restaurants in this thread aren't cash only. The question seems to be about them going no cash.

I was talking about cash only operations like bars, clubs, and casinos when referencing cash only businesses.

Hope this helps.

Except that neither bars nor clubs, nor casinos for that matter, are cash-only.

Edit: Just checked my casino club card, got almost 1000 points on it I can use to gamble!

<Moves><Moves><Moves>
 
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Except that neither bars nor clubs, nor casinos for that matter, are cash-only.

Edit: Just checked my casino club card, got almost 1000 points on it I can use to gamble!

<Moves><Moves><Moves>

I didn't say all bars, clubs, and casinos are cash only.
 
isn't this part of prophecy in the Bible? Cashless society, one world government, plague and famine? Jesus is en route.
 

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