International Canada finalizes $19-billion purchase of F-35 fighter jets

Is this a smart buy for the Canadians?


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Takes Two To Tango

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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...zes-19-billion-purchase-of-f-35-fighter-jets/

The first of 88 new F-35 fighter jets will be delivered to Canada in three years, beginning a process of replacing the country’s aging fleet of CF-18s that the federal government says will be complete by 2032.

The government announced its interest in the jets last year, but on Monday provided details of the $19-billion purchase, the result of a deal with the United States government, aerospace company Lockheed Martin Corp. and aircraft-engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney.

Defence Minister Anita Anand told a news conference the first four F-35s will be delivered in 2026, the next six in 2027 and another six in 2028. The full fleet will be in place to enable the phase-out of the CF-18s by the end of 2032, she said.

The announcement coincides with this week’s North American Leaders’ Summit in Mexico City, where Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is meeting with U.S. President Joe Biden and Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.

Defence Department gets approval to spend $7-billion on 16 F-35 fighter jets, sources say

Orchestrating the purchase of the jets has been a long and halting process. The former Conservative government of Stephen Harper committed to buying F-35s and launched a pair of procurement efforts. But in the 2015 federal election that brought the Liberal Party to power, Mr. Trudeau campaigned against buying the aircraft, saying they were too expensive.

In government, with Mr. Trudeau as Prime Minister, the Liberals eventually came to accept that F-35s were the best option for replacing the 1980s-era CF-18s. On Monday, Ms. Anand described the purchase as the largest one for the Royal Canadian Air Force in about 30 years.

“The F-35 is a modern, reliable and agile fighter aircraft used by our closest allies in missions across the globe. It is the most advanced fighter on the market and it is the right aircraft for our country,” she told the news conference.

The F-35 has a maximum speed of Mach 1.6, or 1,975 kilometres an hour, and a range of 2,200 kilometres. It has a service ceiling of just over 15,000 metres.

Robert Huebert, a professor of political science at the University of Calgary who studies Canadian security, said in an interview that the purchase will give Canada the advanced technology it needs to defend itself and its allies against threats that could include military advances by Russia and China.

He described the move to buy F-35s as one of Canada’s most important procurement decisions, and noted that the country also faces decisions on investment in submarines and frigates.

Ms. Anand said the aircraft will provide pilots with enhanced intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities.

Pressed to explain the government’s reasons for shifting back to the F-35s, Ms. Anand said the decision was the result of a fair, open and competitive procurement process.

“In addition to ensuring that our country will be protected and our obligations to NORAD and NATO will be maintained, we are also ensuring that economic benefits from this procurement will flow to the Canadian economy,” she said.

The minister said the acquisition and initial maintenance of the F-35s could contribute over $425-million annually to the Canadian economy, and close to 3,300 jobs annually over 25 years, in part because of the need to build and operate extensive support systems for the aircraft. Ms. Anand noted that there will be a need to construct modern fighter squadron facilities in Bagotville, Que., and Cold Lake, Alta.

She said the jets will be able to operate in the “unique environment of Canada, specifically the Arctic, with its cold weather and short, icy, wet runways.”

The $19-billion price tag includes the jets, associated equipment and weapons, as well as training and services to maintain the aircraft. Operating and maintaining the fleet will bring its total cost to about $70-billion over its decades-long lifespan, officials told a briefing ahead of Ms. Anand’s announcement.

Because Canada is one of eight partner countries that has funded the F-35′s development costs since 1997, the officials said, it will be paying the same amount per plane as the U.S.: about US$85-million.

Dave Perry, president of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute, said in a statement that Canadians should watch the implementation of the overall project, beyond buying the planes.

“Getting the aircraft is probably going to be the easier part. There’s a huge personnel shortage across our military, and the RCAF is short on fighter pilots and technicians specifically, so getting enough human talent will be critical,” he said.

“Building all the new infrastructure required to operate the aircraft in Canada on schedule will also be key to getting the aircraft operating on time. The manufacturer has built hundreds of planes and is building hundreds more, but we haven’t modernized our fighter infrastructure for decades.”

Conservative defence critic James Bezan accused the Liberal government of contradicting itself on the issue, saying in a tweet that Mr. Trudeau claimed he would never buy the F-35, then wasted years on “rusted out” Australian F-18s only to realize the Conservative plan was right all along.

The government spent about $400-million on used F-18s from the Royal Australian Air Force, and launched a $1.3-billion program to extend the lifespans of the jets it already owned.

“The fact is Trudeau has failed to provide our military with the equipment they require now,” Mr. Bezan said.

NDP deputy defence critic Randall Garrison said in a statement that years of political games between the Liberals and Conservatives have left Canada’s armed forces without the equipment they need to do their jobs.

Even with the purchase of the F-35s, Canada will not have met its obligations to NATO, which requires that each member country devote 2 per cent of its GDP to military spending. The Parliamentary Budget Officer said last summer that Canada would have to commit an additional $75.3-billion before the end of 2027 to meet that spending target.

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Wait...why?

I assume that if Canada would get into a foreign entanglement that would require airplanes that go pew pew pew, that the US would be doing the heavy fighting. The US would certainly be involved in the same war that Canada would be involved in.
 
Wait...why?

I assume that if Canada would get into a foreign entanglement that would require airplanes that go pew pew pew, that the US would be doing the heavy fighting. The US would certainly be involved in the same war that Canada would be involved in.

I know, I would think the US would certainly back up the Canadians if the shit hits the fan.
 
Wait...why?

I assume that if Canada would get into a foreign entanglement that would require airplanes that go pew pew pew, that the US would be doing the heavy fighting. The US would certainly be involved in the same war that Canada would be involved in.
Patrolling the North ensures our sovereignty. Canada should have some air capability and not always have ot rely on Americans.
 
Just for some context, this was his take on this in 2015:

"Trudeau did not specify how much he hoped to save by forgoing the F-35 purchase in favour of an open competition for a less-expensive plane. Background material issued by the party put the "fly-away" cost of the F-35 at $175 million per plane and the price of the rival F-18 Super Hornet at $65 million. "

Liberals 'living in a dream world' on F-35 cancellation, Stephen Harper says | CBC News

Seems like someone had some foresight, and it wasn't the guy who promised this along with election reform in his 2015 campaign. I wonder what this 8 year about-face will end up costing Canadians? Ah, who am I kidding - these budgets balance themselves. No need to worry.

Now, get ready for the dozens of Canadians who are on board with pepper spray being illegal for self defense and have historically cringed at the thought of Canada dumping money into our military going on about how Canada needs a robust military to ensure our sovereignty blah blah blah... I think "about-face" should be the phrase of the day in Canada.
 
Wait, Canadian citizens can't buy handguns or AR-14s to hunt with but now must pay for Trudeau's F-35s?

trudeau-drinking.gif
 
Not surprised Trudeau campaigned against but no issue with it. Self reliance and protection is not a bad thing imo. Also didn't know about the NATO requirements.. thats interesting
 
Just for some context, this was his take on this in 2015:

"Trudeau did not specify how much he hoped to save by forgoing the F-35 purchase in favour of an open competition for a less-expensive plane. Background material issued by the party put the "fly-away" cost of the F-35 at $175 million per plane and the price of the rival F-18 Super Hornet at $65 million. "

Liberals 'living in a dream world' on F-35 cancellation, Stephen Harper says | CBC News

Seems like someone had some foresight, and it wasn't the guy who promised this along with election reform in his 2015 campaign. I wonder what this 8 year about-face will end up costing Canadians? Ah, who am I kidding - these budgets balance themselves. No need to worry.

Now, get ready for the dozens of Canadians who are on board with pepper spray being illegal for self defense and have historically cringed at the thought of Canada dumping money into our military going on about how Canada needs a robust military to ensure our sovereignty blah blah blah... I think "about-face" should be the phrase of the day in Canada.
Even the strongest liberal supporters have to see how 2-faced PM blackface is on this one. The purchase was a millimeter from being finalized in 2014/2015 by the competent defense minister Peter Mackay prior to Trudeau's pandering campaign against these jets. 8 years later and at almost double the price we are now buying THOSE jets. Ukraine was already firmly on the conservatives radar at that time, so waiting for a potential conflict cannot be used as any sort of reasoning.
 
Wait...why?

I assume that if Canada would get into a foreign entanglement that would require airplanes that go pew pew pew, that the US would be doing the heavy fighting. The US would certainly be involved in the same war that Canada would be involved in.
You realize we have a huge territory to patrol and don't rely on the US for everything?
 
They can lock up air superiority over any military besides the US for half the cost of twitter. Seems like a pretty solid investment.

I'm not big on wasteful military spending just to bulk up an inventory, but that seems like a sound invenstment.
 
88 planes. Yeah. I doubt we can find enough pilots & ground crew to keep them all flying by the time they're delivered given the sad path our military is on.
 
You realize we have a huge territory to patrol and don't rely on the US for everything?

I think the thing which is going to rub a lot of us the wrong way is that a lot of us have realized this for a long bloody time, but have been gaslit about Canada being a peaceful nation doesn't need a large military and that you're stupid to even think we should need to be able to defend our own massive border. Now we see many of the ones who gaslit us suddenly talking about "You know, Canada has to defend itself - why on earth would you question this?". Well, fuck them - you lot have been the historic roadblock for this!

Huge sections of the Canadian population have been pushing, for a long bloody time, for us to meet our NATO obligations which we fall pathetically short of. We frequently point out that the valuable Canadian north is vulnerable to some of the most aggressive powers in the world, and we are likely not able to project force within our own borders in any significant manner. Many of us want this to be a budget priority, but have faced extremely strong headwinds in even suggesting it.

Symbolically, the guy who attacked our previous PM for wanting to buy these exact planes, only to buy them himself at a much greater cost 8 years later, really sums up a lot of the Canadian political landscape on the issue of military expenditures. One camp spends years attacking the other for wanting to spend money on X, and then suddenly turns around and spends more money on X, with the more money bit being due to them obstructing it in the past. Canada chronically underfunds its military, and having the pricks who want to underfund it suddenly pull an about-face - at significant cost due to their delaying action - is galling. I'm glad it's happening, but it's like the hearing the guy who is always late on rent lecturing someone on fiscal responsibility because he finally has the money for rent before it is due.
 
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@Fake Doctor nails it on the spot. I first became aware of it in the 90s with the Sea King helicopter replacement program which as I recall was all lined up & ready to go, and then we cancelled it at the last second and had to pay something like a $1 billion penalty for the late cancellation. Then a few years later we end up buying the EH-101 anyway, but in something like 1/3 the original numbers AND a higher total cost on top of that.

Then we did the same with our subs and now we're doing it with our aircraft. Yeah we need them, but man is it ever going to cost us now since the delays & cancellations mean we don't have any of the support infrastructure for the advanced jets so we'll be dependent on the US for a lot of the maintenance & upkeep which is going to drive up costs even more along with compromising operational readiness should the US be unable or unwilling to provide support.
 
@Fake Doctor nails it on the spot. I first became aware of it in the 90s with the Sea King helicopter replacement program which as I recall was all lined up & ready to go, and then we cancelled it at the last second and had to pay something like a $1 billion penalty for the late cancellation. Then a few years later we end up buying the EH-101 anyway, but in something like 1/3 the original numbers AND a higher total cost on top of that.

Then we did the same with our subs and now we're doing it with our aircraft. Yeah we need them, but man is it ever going to cost us now since the delays & cancellations mean we don't have any of the support infrastructure for the advanced jets so we'll be dependent on the US for a lot of the maintenance & upkeep which is going to drive up costs even more along with compromising operational readiness should the US be unable or unwilling to provide support.

Bingo. Estimates I'm reading are 70 billion over the next few decades. I mean, it costs what it costs, but it rankles to think that we could have been working on this for the better part of a decade already and been ready with the infrastructure rather than playing catchup at great cost.

Similar timeframe for me watching our little comedy of errors on military expenditures unfold. Canada's waffling on military expenditures has cost us billions in my lifetime, as we have parties that back-off on what they know is necessary military spending in order to drum up votes from the "love is the answer" crowd in Canada - only to pay a premium later because they didn't get when the getting was good.

We're the guy down the street who won't fix his gutters because it costs too much and ends up with a far bigger bill when his basement floods. Prior to the flood we're saying "Well, look at all the money we're saving by not fixing our gutters! What a big expense THAT would have been!" When the water is pouring in we're all "How dare you question how much money I'm going to spend on fixing the floor? What, do you hate this house or something?"
 
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I think the thing which is going to rub a lot of us the wrong way is that a lot of us have realized this for a long bloody time, but have been gaslit about Canada being a peaceful nation doesn't need a large military and that you're stupid to even think we should need to be able to defend our own massive border. Now we see many of the ones who gaslit us suddenly talking about "You know, Canada has to defend itself - why on earth would you question this?". Well, fuck them - you lot have been the historic roadblock for this!

Huge sections of the Canadian population have been pushing, for a long bloody time, for us to meet our NATO obligations which we fall pathetically short of. We frequently point out that the valuable Canadian north is vulnerable to some of the most aggressive powers in the world, and we are likely not able to project force within our own borders in any significant manner. Many of us want this to be a budget priority, but have faced extremely strong headwinds in even suggesting it.

Symbolically, the guy who attacked our previous PM for wanting to buy these exact planes, only to buy them himself at a much greater cost 8 years later, really sums up a lot of the Canadian political landscape on the issue of military expenditures. One camp spends years attacking the other for wanting to spend money on X, and then suddenly turns around and spends more money on X, with the more money bit being due to them obstructing it in the past. Canada chronically underfunds its military, and having the pricks who want to underfund it suddenly pull an about-face - at significant cost due to their delaying action - is galling. I'm glad it's happening, but it's like the hearing the guy who is always late on rent lecturing someone on fiscal responsibility because he finally has the money for rent before it is due.
Mic drop.

Add on top of all of this sound reasoning the fact that PM blackface fired General Fortin for a completely unsubstantiated sexual assault claim from 30 years ago and boom; why the fuck would anyone want to join our military? We spit in their face (and veterans) at every opportunity.
 
Just for some context, this was his take on this in 2015:

"Trudeau did not specify how much he hoped to save by forgoing the F-35 purchase in favour of an open competition for a less-expensive plane. Background material issued by the party put the "fly-away" cost of the F-35 at $175 million per plane and the price of the rival F-18 Super Hornet at $65 million. "

Liberals 'living in a dream world' on F-35 cancellation, Stephen Harper says | CBC News

Seems like someone had some foresight, and it wasn't the guy who promised this along with election reform in his 2015 campaign. I wonder what this 8 year about-face will end up costing Canadians? Ah, who am I kidding - these budgets balance themselves. No need to worry.

Now, get ready for the dozens of Canadians who are on board with pepper spray being illegal for self defense and have historically cringed at the thought of Canada dumping money into our military going on about how Canada needs a robust military to ensure our sovereignty blah blah blah... I think "about-face" should be the phrase of the day in Canada.


for more context, PM blackface cancelled paying $15B for the same fighters in 2015 b/c the jets were too offensive based weapons.
 
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