Can you only Von Flue when opponent guillotines?

[finalboss]

I understand that the VFC is a escape/submission from a guillotine, but it this the only time you should use it? I've used it from side control without a guillotine attempt and succeeded, but are there consequences to using it without the guillotine attempt or is this fine? Thanks in advance.

 

[rmongler]

Can you only Von Flue when opponent guillotines?

Nah, in many ways you can think of it like setting up an arm triangle from mount, only you're in side control. Works great in concert with the stockade and nearside under hook pass.

Some examples:

 

[finalboss]

Well in the first video he does the VFC off a failed guillotine attempt and the third video says you shouldn't do it without the arm trapped. The second video did show it without the failed guillotine. One of my questions remains unanswered, what are the negatives of the VFC without the failed guillotine? And a new question, I see how trapping the arm would be a good thing (more of a defensive tactic to avoid being attacked by that free arm), but does pinning the opponent's shoulder do much? I don't see how it's putting extra pressure on the opponent's neck as the shoulder is going up towards his head and not against his neck.

 

[Nnedd]

I think you are asking your question in a confusing way. Here is what I think you are asking :

Can the Von Flue choke be done without trapping the arm?


As far as I know, the answer is yes. It's called an arm triangle, and your chances of finishing it across the body are slim to none. If you want to finish it, move to mount or to the near side.

 

[finalboss]

Let me see if I can clear it up. Let's say you're in side control. Opponent does not have his arm wrapped around you in the failed guillotine style. Can you still drop your shoulder into his throat like the VFC OR it should never be done without the arm trapped as there a distinct disadvantage to not trapping the arm which will cause the opponent to defend, attack, sweep, etc.?

 

[trustdoesntrust]

James Clingerman has an instructional on Digitsu solely dedicated to the Von Flue choke. I haven't seen it, but the previews look interesting. http://www.digitsu.com/james-clingerman-mastering-the-von-flue-choke-on-demand-p-51.html

 

[jcandoitbig]

does this help