Can the McDojo-ization of BJJ be avoided?

[BWC]

As more and more practitioners enter the world of BJJ, and specifically the gym I train in, I can't help but notice the fact that the mix is less and less guys who kind of want to be "fighters" or "martial artists" and more people who just want to have fun, "get fit", "meet some cool people", etc. Basically nothing that has anything to do with combat.

Not that those are unworthy goals at all, but aren't these the same reasons people sign up for karate, TKD, or any other art that gets bagged on around here? The prevailing mentality for most gym owners these days is "bodies in the door". Hey it's a business and a growing one at that. But there's a good number of guys (and girls) in my gym who I'm sure would never dream of risking a punch to the face or getting in an actual fight. Are we kidding ourselves laughing at TKD masters when I know blue belts who can't even perform a triangle correctly?

I am concerned that BJJ will suffer the same fate as karate for example. The pure number of people flowing into BJJ gyms has to inevitably "soften" the art doesn't it? Thoughts?

 

[Number1Wrestler**]

With a number of centers opened by Gracie Combatives blue-belts, it has already started...lets hope it doesnt spread far

 

[Balto]

There is nothing wrong with doing BJJ, Karate, TKD, or whatever for fun, fitness, stress relief, or any other type of goal.

Blue belts who can't do a triangle right aren't anything new. In fact, if I think back to when I first got my blue belt, I probably didn't do the triangle as well as I do now either. I predict that when I'm a black belt, I'll probably do it a little differently too.

Ultimately you just need to worry about your own training. Are you progressing towards your goals? If so, then there is no need to look down on the goals of others.

 

[Cash Bill 52]

Welcome to the modern era. Don't despair. It will always be something special. I lived for years in obscurity. It's time for JIU JITSU to takes it rightful place in our communities.

I don't know too many adults taking TKD or JKD and having the same type of life that I lead.

I don know lots of overweight kids who lack confidence and self esteem. These kids need JIU JITSU!

We need to get the fat asses off the couch with this simple workout plan:::

JUST SHOW UP!

Magic will happen if you let it.

Also, competition will let everyone know what's up. There's no ducking how good you are.

I know some blue belts that aren't very good at triangles. I am not too worried about it.

 

[davejitsu]

I agree with Balto. McDojos don't bother me if there isn't another alternative available...its when they try to sell them selves of as being a legit ranked school

 

[Cash Bill 52]

There is nothing wrong with doing BJJ, Karate, TKD, or whatever for fun, fitness, stress relief, or any other type of goal.

Blue belts who can't do a triangle right aren't anything new. In fact, if I think back to when I first got my blue belt, I probably didn't do the triangle as well as I do now either. I predict that when I'm a black belt, I'll probably do it a little differently too.

Ultimately you just need to worry about your own training. Are you progressing towards your goals? If so, then there is no need to look down on the goals of others.

You stole my thunder!:icon_twis

I don't mind following you. I think you will one day be a famous jj guy for some reason...

 

[Balto]

You stole my thunder!:icon_twis

I don't mind following you. I think you will one day be a famous jj guy for some reason...

Thanks bro.

If I ever do end up famous, hopefully it's for the right reasons. But there is a long road ahead of me there.

 

[RacerX]

As more and more practitioners enter the world of BJJ, and specifically the gym I train in, I can't help but notice the fact that the mix is less and less guys who kind of want to be "fighters" or "martial artists" and more people who just want to have fun, "get fit", "meet some cool people", etc. Basically nothing that has anything to do with combat.
...

If you don't want them, send them to Judo. Since it is a Budo these people should be welcome in any proper dojo. If they don't have any bushido they will quit anyway.

 

[lethalweapon]

I think it's less likely to happen compared to other martial arts.

Black belt lineage can be easily traced, so no respectable black belt will promote a person unless he really deserves it. This person will move forward representing his teacher, team and lineage.

Also because competition is so high within the BJJ community, an undeserving belt can be easily exposed.

Students usually pick schools based on the accomplishments of the instructor and his students, so it positively turns the gears forward.

The people you refer to are the ones who drop out after a few months. Sparing is tough.

 

[ArchAngelos]

I think it's less likely to happen compared to other martial arts.

Black belt lineage can be easily traced, so no respectable black belt will promote a person unless he really deserves it. This person will move forward representing his teacher, team and lineage.

Also because competition is so high within the BJJ community, an undeserving belt can be easily exposed.

Students usually pick schools based on the accomplishments of the instructor and his students, so it positively turns the gears forward.

The people you refer to are the ones who drop out after a few months. Sparing is tough.

You are delusional if you think that a large part of the population either A.) does not care enough to check or B.) want to be fooled.

There are fake black belt instructors popping up all over the world and despite all of the online investigations and threats of dojo-storms, these guys are still in operation and still making money.

All you can do is be real.

 

[dazed863]

*shakes head*

you don't like it leave.. simple as that...

more people wanting to train (even if it's not to bash other people's head it better) means more rolling partners for you.

and at least in my experience the guys who don't like to "roll hard" are the most technically proficient and really good at helping you improve your game.

 

[td82394]

No, unfortunately. It happens to every martial art. But I don't feel sorry for the people who get caught in those traps because they should do their homework. The internet is a powerful tool.

 

[GS828]

There's nothing wrong in training BJJ to lose weight, have fun, and meet people. The problem is with the gym or academy that gives away belts too fast and waters down the training. Schools should be open to everyone who wants to train for various reasons ... weight loss, stress, learn an art, sport/compete, fight professionally, self defense, etc. A school should have a broad range of people there. Obviously the more serious students (competition/sport/fighting students) should have more rolls, get more Q/A, and perhaps have a little more 1 on 1 but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the dad down the block that wants to learn to defend himself or learn how to grapple, it's all about the school and what they do to make it a McDojo. Just my 2 cents.

 

[BWC]

There's nothing wrong in training BJJ to lose weight, have fun, and meet people. The problem is with the gym or academy that gives away belts too fast and waters down the training. Schools should be open to everyone who wants to train for various reasons ... weight loss, stress, learn an art, sport/compete, fight professionally, self defense, etc. A school should have a broad range of people there. Obviously the more serious students (competition/sport/fighting students) should have more rolls, get more Q/A, and perhaps have a little more 1 on 1 but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the dad down the block that wants to learn to defend himself or learn how to grapple, it's all about the school and what they do to make it a McDojo. Just my 2 cents.

This is kind of my point. Market forces are going to dictate where people go to train and let's face it, how many people are going to wait 10 years for a BB or even 1 year to get promoted to blue? That's what happened to karate, the wide cross-section of people wanting to train simply created an environment where instructors had to start watering it down and handing out undeserved belts to keep a student base that allowed them to keep the doors open. It's not because all the TKD instructors intentionally started wussifying the stuff, market forces simply took over. Let's face it, Americans generally aren't big on delayed gratification...

 

[BWC]

My main argument is that we BJJ players like to be a little smug and look down our noses at Karate, TKD, etc because our art is so "effective", "realistic", etc. Well at one point everyone thought those things about Karate and Kung Fu as well. The same things that happened to them could easily happen to our beloved BJJ and we have to be prepared for that and be active in doing our best to prevent it. That's all I'm really saying..

 

[GS828]

My main argument is that we BJJ players like to be a little smug and look down our noses at Karate, TKD, etc because our art is so "effective", "realistic", etc. Well at one point everyone thought those things about Karate and Kung Fu as well. The same things that happened to them could easily happen to our beloved BJJ and we have to be prepared for that and be active in doing our best to prevent it. That's all I'm really saying..

There's not much we can do except live our BJJ lives as best as we can and try to uphold our vision of BJJ and let everything else be what it will. Flow with the go.

 

[Mat Nemesis**]

My main argument is that we BJJ players like to be a little smug and look down our noses at Karate, TKD, etc because our art is so "effective", "realistic", etc. Well at one point everyone thought those things about Karate and Kung Fu as well. The same things that happened to them could easily happen to our beloved BJJ and we have to be prepared for that and be active in doing our best to prevent it. That's all I'm really saying..

so you mean you think that bjj is not going to work?

i don't think so, the big difference between bjj and all that karate BS is:
We roll, we physically practice fighting techniques on another person and not just kick the air and shit.

 

[nefti]

As more and more practitioners enter the world of BJJ, and specifically the gym I train in, I can't help but notice the fact that the mix is less and less guys who kind of want to be "fighters" or "martial artists" and more people who just want to have fun, "get fit", "meet some cool people", etc. Basically nothing that has anything to do with combat.

Not that those are unworthy goals at all, but aren't these the same reasons people sign up for karate, TKD, or any other art that gets bagged on around here? The prevailing mentality for most gym owners these days is "bodies in the door". Hey it's a business and a growing one at that. But there's a good number of guys (and girls) in my gym who I'm sure would never dream of risking a punch to the face or getting in an actual fight. Are we kidding ourselves laughing at TKD masters when I know blue belts who can't even perform a triangle correctly?

I am concerned that BJJ will suffer the same fate as karate for example. The pure number of people flowing into BJJ gyms has to inevitably "soften" the art doesn't it? Thoughts?

do you think that the crem de la crem that Carlos and Helio taught (politicians and the richest people of brasil at the time) wanted to be fighters? The beauty of jiu jitsu is that it can be an hobby and as a tool for physical fitness as well as being able to defend yourself.

 

[Cash Bill 52]

My main argument is that we BJJ players like to be a little smug and look down our noses at Karate, TKD, etc because our art is so "effective", "realistic", etc. Well at one point everyone thought those things about Karate and Kung Fu as well. The same things that happened to them could easily happen to our beloved BJJ and we have to be prepared for that and be active in doing our best to prevent it. That's all I'm really saying..

I don't look down my nose at TKD or other TMA's. Again, competition will weed out the weak. I can envision many teams under one roof:

1. Hobby/Fitness team
2. Competition Team
3. Kid Team
4. Family Team
5. Hobby Fighters
6. Fight Team

No need to hold on to something that is no longer there. Just evolve...That's what Rolles SR. would have said. (imho)

 

[saywhuuh]

Jiu jitsu is for anyone. its all about spreading the art. to whoever wants to learn.