can someone please explain to me, an acihllies hold?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by VegasFighter**, Jul 25, 2005.

  1. VegasFighter**

    VegasFighter** Brown Belt

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    Look at the name
    i've heard of it, and seen arlovski use it against silvia.


    whats different from that than an ankle lock?

    help?
     
  2. TequillaSlammer

    TequillaSlammer Green Belt

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    An ankle lock works by twisting your opponents foot where as the achillies (also known as the straight foot lock) works much more like a stretch.
    Basically you trap your opponents foot under your armpit with his knee and his toes facing up toward the ceiling.
    The next thing you need to do is check the hip, usually done by pulling the leg you have caught in between your legs and then wrapping your outside leg over the top of it.
    Now you wanna make sure his toes are stuck in your armpit and that the blade of your forearm is pressing into his achillies tendon (hence the name).
    It's not really a high percentage move as the defence is as simple as turning your foot out but it does give you another option when attacking the legs.
     
  3. FStep

    FStep Brown Belt

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    i have another question about that move actually ... everytime i catch someone in it they end up getting one of my legs thats over their leg in a toe hold or some kinda foot lock on their end as well how do i stay out of that
     
  4. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    there's a lot to be said about going entangled legs. try keeping your outside foot pushing on your opponent's hip and your inside foot should be under/behind his ass when going for the achilles lock. if he takes your foot off his hip, fight to put it right back on and push him off you. your legs are pretty safe here. if you have both your legs "in", then use one foot to kick his grip off the other whenever he goes for something. that should get you started.
     
  5. Rory McDonell

    Rory McDonell Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    If I'm not mistaken this is not a move that is high percentage in terms of damage. So basically if you can tough it out, its not going to break your ankle. Opposite to a kneebar, which doesn't hurt until your knee explodes.
     
  6. otsukafan

    otsukafan Purple Belt

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    Stephen Kesting actually does a really good job explaining the difference in grappling magazine's latest issue.

    Essentially as explained the straight ankle lock stretches the tendons on top of the foot an ankle. The achillies is less prone to cause injury, and is a little more secure. With the achillies lock you don't have to be as loose on the foot. You actually secure the foot at the ankle and dig the blade of the bone on your forearm into the achillies, this just causes alot of pain when done correctly. It could cause injury, but it's unlikely.
     
  7. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    The never ending disadvantage to leg locks... if the guy is taller then you, he will simply put you in the same move and now your the one in trouble... I stay away from foot locks. Assuming he is experienced enough to do so.

    Real men pass the guard.

    But for some people ankle/foot locks are a part of life. Like stated before last issue of grappling magazine has a large article dedicated to the achiles lock.. If your interested pick it up at a book store, or paper stand near you.
     
  8. fatherdog

    fatherdog Orange Belt

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    Sure it is, if you don't suck at it.

    This is why after wrapping your arm around the ankle, you fold your elbow back against your ribs. It pins the foot against your side so it can't be turned. Basic detail.

    Incidentally, when taken too far this move can break the bones of the foot and rupture the achilles tendon. I've seen both done in tournaments, so anyone saying this move is "just a pain move" doesn't know what they're talking about.
     
  9. 21st centuryJKD

    21st centuryJKD Orange Belt

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    it's kind of funny, i just got that issue of grappling magazine yesterday. maybe i misread the article, but the author seemed to say that ankle locks and achilles locks are the same thing with a differing grip. but i guess it's an aesthetic difference.
    anyway, i just tried the biceps grip shown in the article earlier today in my bjj class, and it feels alot more secure, haven't gotten a chance to try the wrestler's grip yet, but it looks cool and i could probably confuse some of my friends with it
     
  10. TequillaSlammer

    TequillaSlammer Green Belt

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    Say what you like, I still think it's an easy move to escape and I have rolled with a few guys that are excellent at footlocks. When I first started rolling my guard game left me open to footlocks a lot and even then I had very little trouble escaping from guys who were much more experienced than I was.
     
  11. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    an achilles lock can break your foot as well, for all you who think its just pain on the achilles tendon. i am very guilty of trying to "tough it out" with achilles locks, but you can get seriously injured with them
     
  12. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

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    an achilles is pain on the tendon and feels very awkward/painful but it is only pian, as others have said. the ankle lock is pretty much the same hold but it is a straight footlock against the ankle and can cause some damage.
    often times people call both holds achilles holds because it is more descriptive than 'footlock'.
     
  13. dutchmasterj3

    dutchmasterj3 Blue Belt

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    Achilles hold is a good lock. I wouldn't practice it though until you get a blue or purple belt. The blue belts would do it to me, and then I started doing it to other white belts. I feel like a pussy though making someone submit with that shit, cause all the advanced level guys aren't going to fall for it.
     
  14. Jason Pair

    Jason Pair Amateur Fighter

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    I can't stand these guys who don't know shit about Achilles locks so they say they suck, aren't high percentage, can just tough them out, if the guy is taller he'll catch you too and then you'll be in trouble. Simplily put, if you do not know how to perform correct leglocks. DO NOT try them.

    Most people incorrectly position their forearm and have an incorrect grip, that is reason number one most people suck at them and think they are ineffective. Also people tend to incorrectly go for the lock and give the other guy their leg, which will not happen if you correctly position your feet and legs.

    One example of how an achililes is effective if done correct, and why it is a horrible move to try if you can't. My first Amateur MMA fight my opponent backed out (I had already gone to the trouble of cutting to 189, the event had screwed up weight classes) so I wanted a fight, I found one guy who did not have a a fight. He weighed in at 239, but confident I could kick his ass I took it. I rushed in with my striking too quickly, left myself open for a takedown from the adreneline dump I just wanted to knock his head off. So as I was flying through the air I though "once this hits the ground he's f*cked" Anyhow, about 10seconds on the ground I had him in an armbar, felt something in his arm pop/snap but he didn't tap. After a few near submissions and him never coming close to passing my guard. I stopped striking so he would base up, I then opened my guard and wondered if he would be stupid enough to try a leglock on me. So I left me left leg out and since this guy never learned how to pass a good guard (apparently never learned leglocks correctly either) he fell back to go for an achilies. Of course I immediatly hooked his leg as he fell back and turned my foot to defend. This guy thought we were trading locks and I was in danger even though he had nothing about so he didn't tap immediately about 2 and a half to 3 seconds of me having locked in my achilies I felt a crack in his foot heard a scream then he tapped. And let me tell you the look on his face in the video the moment before he tapped was priceless. Broke his ankle. Snap Crackle Pop.

    Moral of the story, do not try leglocks if you they are not nearly 100% for you and if you haven't had success always getting a quick tap.

    Some people just don't pick them up, I generally learned my leglocks from watching some fight tapes and decided to "try that technique" and somehow I did it correctly and have loved leglocks since then. Of course throughout the years I've refined my technique, trained with some guys who know leglocks and improved my over all technique. But the one reason I ever got good with the achilies was because the first thing I got right was the position on the ankle and the position I made with my forearm bone and my hand grip.

    I like giving people good grappling advice on the net. Passing the guard, side control, knee mount. The key basics but for some reason leglocks are the one thing I really only like explaining to a few people I train with in person. I would recommend however taking some Gokor or Erik Paulson seminars, finding some guys who are really good with leglocks to train with because correctly knowing Ankle Locks, HeelHooks, Kneebars, ect.. Will improve your game tons and imho are one of the most complicated submissions which is one reason people always try to claim they take no technique or they are "cheap" simpily because the person ego cannot take the fact they have no idea how to perform the techniques.
     

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