Can a fighter rise to the top with their instinctive style? Or is there a certain level where you need to start evolving your gameplan?

[Intermission]

I disagree. Khamzat is coasting entirely on one strength. DDP gamplanned to have zero takedown defense against a wrestler. Poatan had two divisions of strikers to walk through. Izzy wasn't exactly well-rounded. I don't think many HWs today could hang with top HWs from the past.

Khamzat is not a bad striker at all, as he showed against Burns. Who is not a bad striker himself either.

Izzy had great takedown defence and distance management. Poatan is one dimensional outlier.

 

[don't ask]

Khamzat is not a bad striker at all, as he showed against Burns. Who is not a bad striker himself either.

Izzy had great takedown defence and distance management. Poatan is one dimensional outlier.

Khamzat showed holes in his striking game against Burns and I have no idea if he fixed them or not.

Izzy's great takedown defense and distance management are irrelevant -- we're talking about missing abilities, like groundfighting.

There's no way you can consider these two well-rounded, but shit on Ortiz/Liddell.

 

[Intermission]

Khamzat showed holes in his striking game against Burns and I have no idea if he fixed them or not.

Izzy's great takedown defense and distance management are irrelevant -- we're talking about missing abilities, like groundfighting.

It's not missing if he never needed it. Also Poatan does have a black belt in BJJ...it's his wrestling that is non existent.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

his evolution was Stipe being older and smaller than before.

I know the consensus around here now is "fuck Francis" but Strawman arguments? Like really?

 

[don't ask]

It's not missing if he never needed it. Also Poatan does have a black belt in BJJ...it's his wrestling that is non existent.

Yeah, it's ridiculous to think these guys are any more well-rounded than Tito or Chuck.

 

[Intermission]

Yeah, it's ridiculous to think these guys are any more well-rounded than Tito or Chuck.

they are... Tito Ortiz is a bitch in any striking contest. Liddell got smoked by Rampage twice, and he was in his prime first time. Had no answer to technical, powerful hitters. No defence.

 

[don't ask]

they are... Tito Ortiz is a bitch in any striking contest. Liddell got smoked by Rampage twice, and he was in his prime first time. Had no answer to technical, powerful hitters. No defence.

You think Liddell having no answer to a specific fighter is more of a gaping hole in his abilities than Khamzat, Izzy and Poatan's one-dimensional skill sets?

Are you just trolling?

 

[Intermission]

You think Liddell having no answer to a specific fighter is more of a gaping hole in his abilities than Khamzat, Izzy and Poatan's one-dimensional skill sets?

Are you just trolling?

Israel adesanya has had 28 fights, he got subbed once , when he was washed up. So yeah, I dont think he ever had a gaping hole in his natural weight class

 

[don't ask]

Israel adesanya has had 28 fights, he got subbed once , when he was washed up. So yeah, I dont think he ever had a gaping hole in his natural weight class

Liddell loosing to a specific fighter is on par with Izzy not having a ground game.

Okay, I'm being trolled.

 

[Intermission]

Liddell loosing to a specific fighter is on par with Izzy not having a ground game.

Okay, I'm being trolled.

You are a confirmed casual. Just admit you are.

 

[BowserJr]

I was thinking about this after @arcadeperfect made a comment in another thread about fighter's weaknesses and some of them just take poorly to elements of MMA like a student who will always struggle with a specific subject in school.

When I think of fighters who have an instinctive style, I think of people like the Diaz brothers. They climbed high, but not to the absolute top. They trained with one of the best MMA wrestlers in the world and never seemed to indicate that in the cage.

Meanwhile, GSP was famous for constantly evolving and Anderson Silva said he owed all his success to the Nogueira brothers, who turned him into a complete fighter after he left Chutebox. Fedor is someone I'd be tempted to say was an instinctive fighter because so much of his success was based on intangible attributes, but he also went to Holland to train for CroCop, which no one expected and which was a masterstroke of gameplanning.

It seems like there's also a blur between someone fighting instinctively and someone with a specialist style.

Nowadays you need to evolve. Its extremely rare to get to the top only using instinctive skills and purely using your own specific style only while not getting preferential treatment.

The closes thing to that a extremely powerful elite wrestler based fighters in grappling weak divisions.

High level well rounded fighters or elite strikers with no grappling cant get to the top without favorable matchups even in grappling weak divisions