Can a fighter rise to the top with their instinctive style? Or is there a certain level where you need to start evolving your gameplan?

[don't ask]

I was thinking about this after @arcadeperfect made a comment in another thread about fighter's weaknesses and some of them just take poorly to elements of MMA like a student who will always struggle with a specific subject in school.

When I think of fighters who have an instinctive style, I think of people like the Diaz brothers. They climbed high, but not to the absolute top. They trained with one of the best MMA wrestlers in the world and never seemed to indicate that in the cage.

Meanwhile, GSP was famous for constantly evolving and Anderson Silva said he owed all his success to the Nogueira brothers, who turned him into a complete fighter after he left Chutebox. Fedor is someone I'd be tempted to say was an instinctive fighter because so much of his success was based on intangible attributes, but he also went to Holland to train for CroCop, which no one expected and which was a masterstroke of gameplanning.

It seems like there's also a blur between someone fighting instinctively and someone with a specialist style.

 

[Sonny Qc]

Nowadays?

Probably not.

 

[don't ask]

Nowadays?

Probably not.

I was searching my mind for an example of an instinctive style recently becoming champ and then it hit me: DDP. A huge part of his success is because of how unpredictable he is. Same with Jiri and Tony Ferguson.

 

[Hymen Crusher]

Merab

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I tend to think most fighters should reach the top with their original style and the modifications should generally be doing something that allows them to do what they're best at. Like if you're a wrestler learn to strike, but primarily learn how to strike to set up a good, well hidden entry.

 

[Fedorgasm]

I was searching my mind for an example of an instinctive style recently becoming champ and then it hit me: DDP. A huge part of his success is because of how unpredictable he is. Same with Jiri and Tony Ferguson.

I think their unpredictability helps them, but they still had to learn BJJ, wrestling, MT, and boxing.

So no, you can't reach the top relying only on your indictive style. At best, your instinctive style can serve as an enhancement to all the other styles you're trained on.

 

[don't ask]

I tend to think most fighters should reach the top with their original style and the modifications should generally be doing something that allows them to do what they're best at. Like if you're a wrestler learn to strike, but primarily learn how to strike to set up a good, well hidden entry.

It's crazy how many fighters do the opposite.

 

[GoodBadHBK]

Nowadays?

Probably not.

I would take you down and ground n pound you easily.

 

[Rubios]

Currently, I can only think of Jiri.

 

[Sonny Qc]

I would take you down and ground n pound you easily.

And I might be already lubed up.

 

[GoodBadHBK]

And I might be already lubed up.

Lol

 

[CatchtheseHands]

Yes but I think it's only really possible at LHW, HW where the ceiling is a lot higher with how far you can get with only instinctiveness. At HW Francis got to the absolute top of the division with his instinctive style until Stipe beat him and he had to evolve. Then you have Jiri who managed to touch gold with his instinctive style until he was forced to evolve after losing to Poatan twice. Then when we look at lower weight classes like WW you have a guy like Buckley whose instinctiveness almost brought him to a TS until Usman stopped him. So basically the ceiling gets lower and lower with how far you can go the lower you go down in the weight classes.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

I was searching my mind for an example of an instinctive style recently becoming champ and then it hit me: DDP. A huge part of his success is because of how unpredictable he is. Same with Jiri and Tony Ferguson.

Yes, yes, and yes.

And I might be already lubed up.

 

[tigersmoosh]

what even is instinctive style - nobody gets good without training

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

I mean Ngannou doesn't even have good technique but he knocked fools out over and over. He learned a basic sprawl against Stipe 2 but that's about as far as his game evolved and he's still the lineal champ (due to not fighting)

I was searching my mind for an example of an instinctive style recently becoming champ and then it hit me: DDP. A huge part of his success is because of how unpredictable he is. Same with Jiri and Tony Ferguson.

What about Poatan?

 

[jeff7b9]

I think in a few of the weaker divisions you can still get away with it.

Also it depends on how freakishly good you are with your "instinctive fight style" ... If we are gonna call Khamzats instictive style ragdolling the shit out of people, I think he can win a bunch of title fights doing that even if he doesn't use much in the way of striking/standup.

 

[Lee Danger]

At HW Francis got to the absolute top of the division with his instinctive style until Stipe beat him and he had to evolve.

his evolution was Stipe being older and smaller than before.

 

[Intermission]

I mean Ngannou doesn't even have good technique but he knocked fools out over and over.

He had awful technique but his athleticism is underrated. The man was incredibly fast. We dont' need to talk about his physical strength.

 

[Intermission]

I was thinking about this after @arcadeperfect made a comment in another thread about fighter's weaknesses and some of them just take poorly to elements of MMA like a student who will always struggle with a specific subject in school.

I don't know why modern top UFC fighters still get a bad rap. This isn't Lidell-Ortiz era.

 

[don't ask]

I don't know why modern top UFC fighters still get a bad rap. This isn't Lidell-Ortiz era.

I disagree. Khamzat is coasting entirely on one strength. DDP gamplanned to have zero takedown defense against a wrestler. Poatan had two divisions of strikers to walk through. Izzy wasn't exactly well-rounded. I don't think many HWs today could hang with top HWs from the past.