Buffalo leather vs Cowhide

[joeymarvelous]

Hey guys! One of your own (ME!!!) is in the early phases of starting a gear company, and I wanted to ask your thoughts about Buffalo leather vs Cowhide. Things I've read lead me to believe that durability and performance should be equal, and with the ranching and tanning processes involved with Buffalo apparently being a lot more environmentally friendly, part of me leans that way. On the other hand, I'm not sure I've ever owned a piece of Buffalo leather gear, and I'm not willing to sacrifice quality on this point or any other. Since it's you lovely Sherdoggers who gave me the initial education that has led to obsession and hopefully fortune since that fateful day when 'Neverlast almost broke my hand and I decided to research my next purchase, I turn again to your wise guidance here. Thanks everyone!

 

[joeymarvelous]

Looking around a bit, the only well known brand I've found claiming buffalo leather is Leone, and they have used it on some of their higher end models, including the well regarded line they made for GLORY years back.

 

[freaky]

A lot of people use cowhide. Buffalo leather sounds better. It might not be. It might be worst but on a marketing level, Buffalo hide might net you more buys

 

[joeymarvelous]

One big apparent advantage of buffalo is that it's all full grain leather, not processed into lower grade top-grain, or again into still lower grades like nappa. Like you say, it sounds better, but I'd still really like to hear from at least one guy who has knowingly trained with buffalo leather and can tell me what he thinks. I'm getting a pair made to decide for myself in any case, but I worry that if I like it may come off as ingenuine self promotion. Really think that the comparative rarity of buffalo will help drive sales? I was concerned about the inverse, nobody wanting to be the guinea pig. My guy can do deerskin also, if you're into rarer leathers, the first pair he sent me to demonstrate his skill uses it and it's amazing, but I haven't had them long enough to speak for the long term durability.

 

[iFossil]

Still I am not one of the guy who has tried buffalo leather, but at least it is not unheard of. So with how the buffalo leather rarity goes, I'd love to get my hand on a pair. On top of that you can also explain and promote why and how a lot more environmentally friendly it is. That would be pretty huge for me personally. Same go with good quality synthetic material, if they promote it the right way and actually good I'd be suck into it. I don't want to support genuine leather too much if it is not for the fact that synthetic doesn't breath, if they manage to get that going with technology, I'd be glad to take them over genuine leather.

I don't like the idea of deerskin though, pretty hypocritical for me to say, but some how I feel worse support deerskin product. Probably has to do with deerskin really has to get people to hunt the peaceful looking deers in the wild(In my mind). While cow or buffalo leather, usually are taken from people who actually breed them for products and sell every part of them. I am no vegetarian, but it's like, I feel better eating farm animals than if I know I buy this I am supporting people to hunt wild animal? If that make any sense.

Anyway, where is your company base? US?

 

[joeymarvelous]

Still I am not one of the guy who has tried buffalo leather, but at least it is not unheard of. So with how the buffalo leather rarity goes, I'd love to get my hand on a pair. On top of that you can also explain and promote why and how a lot more environmentally friendly it is. That would be pretty huge for me personally. Same go with good quality synthetic material, if they promote it the right way and actually good I'd be suck into it. I don't want to support genuine leather too much if it is not for the fact that synthetic doesn't breath, if they manage to get that going with technology, I'd be glad to take them over genuine leather.

I don't like the idea of deerskin though, pretty hypocritical for me to say, but some how I feel worse support deerskin product. Probably has to do with deerskin really has to get people to hunt the peaceful looking deers in the wild(In my mind). While cow or buffalo leather, usually are taken from people who actually breed them for products and sell every part of them. I am no vegetarian, but it's like, I feel better eating farm animals than if I know I buy this I am supporting people to hunt wild animal? If that make any sense.

Anyway, where is your company base? US?

Yep, my company is based in the US, manufacturer is Pakistani.

It's interesting, I've sort of had the opposite take on farm-raised vs hunted animals. ( note: I'm still trying to learn all that I can about these things myself, so I'm not here to judge anyone's take on animal rights. Gear quality is still the #1 priority. ) For me, I like that a deer was at least able to live a natural type of life before it was taken, whereas factory cow farms are reportedly more brutal conditions for an animal to live under. I'm not yet certain whether cows for leather are raised this way though, or if they're culled from more naturally behaving herds like buffalo, where it looks like we'd be getting the best of both worlds.

Fwiw, I didn't pick the deerhide. Before I came to trust my manufacturer, we agreed he would send me a deeply discounted pair of gloves custom to my size, on the honor system, if he could use leftover materials from another project. The reason they don't have their own thread is that I cannot stand the resulting look. The deer part looks good, but the cowhide he used for the half-palm/half-thumb has this hideous checkered pattern. The QUALITY is off-the-charts good (outside of one technical choice to be corrected in future pairs), but I can't have one of the ugliest pairs of gloves I've laid eyes on creating the first impression for my brand.

 

[iFossil]

Yep, my company is based in the US, manufacturer is Pakistani.

It's interesting, I've sort of had the opposite take on farm-raised vs hunted animals. ( note: I'm still trying to learn all that I can about these things myself, so I'm not here to judge anyone's take on animal rights. Gear quality is still the #1 priority. ) For me, I like that a deer was at least able to live a natural type of life before it was taken, whereas factory cow farms are reportedly more brutal conditions for an animal to live under. I'm not yet certain whether cows for leather are raised this way though, or if they're culled from more naturally behaving herds like buffalo, where it looks like we'd be getting the best of both worlds.

Fwiw, I didn't pick the deerhide. Before I came to trust my manufacturer, we agreed he would send me a deeply discounted pair of gloves custom to my size, on the honor system, if he could use leftover materials from another project. The reason they don't have their own thread is that I cannot stand the resulting look. The deer part looks good, but the cowhide he used for the half-palm/half-thumb has this hideous checkered pattern. The QUALITY is off-the-charts good (outside of one technical choice to be corrected in future pairs), but I can't have one of the ugliest pairs of gloves I've laid eyes on creating the first impression for my brand.

You have very fair point. But I think if human starting to hunt wild animal excessively, it actually do much more damage other than just one kind of animal(deer). Like butterfly effect, because that sorta disrupt the food chain (whatever predators that feed on deer now has to hunt something else or die out) and it only get worse from there. While farm animals are massively breed for humans usage, its number can be control and every part of the animal would be put to good use.

Anyways, it's really off the topic of G&E lol and also hypocritical for me as a owner of many animal leather products and a meat eater.

Even with all said above, and I am not going to buy any deerskin, I am still also very curious to how deerskin gloves look like or perform though as a gearaholic. So if you got a hand on a pair please share your experience or knowledge.

Imo, even if cowhide end up the best, you should still keep at least one line with buffalo leather if you have the options, able to offer something different is a pretty cool.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[joeymarvelous]

Yeah, I totally agree that if humans are going to hunt, it needs to be in a sort of controlled manner to prevent species depletion. I don't think you're a hypocrite, it's a subject that I think everybody kind of decides for themselves what they're most comfortable with. (But kind of off topic for the G&E)

From a performance perspective the deerskin is awesome. Very thick, very soft, molds well. The smell indicated a natural tanning process over a chemical one. I've only had them about 4-5 weeks so I can't say if it holds up in the long run, but I've used them almost every day and so far so good. My only complaint is that it's difficult to keep clean. Sweat wipes off ok, but a little spot of blood took actual scrubbing with lexol to remove a few hours later.

 

[freaky]

Yea definitely have a deerskin, buffalo skin, aligator skin, and whatever skin you can get your hands on. Many collector's will be buying from you and paying good money to boot. You can be like a collector's store. Have a premium collector's edition and your regular stuff out of cowhide or whatever.

 

[joeymarvelous]

Yes, a plethora of leather options has always been the plan for custom made glove customers. (As well as padding, any martial arts gear, sizing, etc. total customization) My question here was more whether I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I choose buffalo for the stock lines.

 

[iFossil]

Yeah, I totally agree that if humans are going to hunt, it needs to be in a sort of controlled manner to prevent species depletion. I don't think you're a hypocrite, it's a subject that I think everybody kind of decides for themselves what they're most comfortable with. (But kind of off topic for the G&E)

From a performance perspective the deerskin is awesome. Very thick, very soft, molds well. The smell indicated a natural tanning process over a chemical one. I've only had them about 4-5 weeks so I can't say if it holds up in the long run, but I've used them almost every day and so far so good. My only complaint is that it's difficult to keep clean. Sweat wipes off ok, but a little spot of blood took actual scrubbing with lexol to remove a few hours later.

If you could take a picture it would be pretty cool, I am personally very curious of how they look like.

 

[joeymarvelous]

Afraid I can't do that yet, need to get some pretty pairs associated with the brand first before I can reveal those abominations lol.

 

[Ryukyu Damashi]

Are you sure it is Bison leather and not Asian water buffalo?

 

[UMA999]

Hi Everyone,

Found this thread very interesting and decided to take part in it and share our little knowledge that we have on this topic.

First of all any original material whether its leather or any fabric made of 100% natural material is more durable, comfortable and long lasting.Thats a cent percent guaranteed thing.

Now the question is Which leather is better?Cowhide/Buffalo hide/Deer skin or any other exotic leather. It really depends on what is going to be made. If you want something unique/ exotic then definitely deer skin or exotic leather(like snake leather/deer skin/crocodile leather/kangaroo leather etc are much more attractive options as they are unique, expensive and rare. Normal products like leather jackets or boxing gears need much more durability and are being massively produced so cow/buffalo hides are best possible options available other then synthetic stuff and they are economical as well.

IS THEIR ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COW HIDE OR BUFFALO HIDE?

Both are good if processed in the right way. Leather making includes three main process..... Tanning/crusting/finishing. Leather quality depends on the quality of material used during these processes. Different leather process are used to make different kind of leather. We also need to understand what kind of leather is best suitable for different gears(this really effects the quality of a gear because if you dont use the right leather for a gear, it will immensely effect its performance and durability). We cant use any leather for every gear. we need to choose/grade it accordingly on basis of its attributes like processing/thickness/stretch etc. Cowhide leather, if processed good is more stretchable and softer then Buffalo hide and there is difference in top grains of both as well. Cowhide's grain is very fine and even as compared to buffalo hide. Buffalo hide's grain is not very fine and its pattern vary on different parts of a skin and from a skin to skin. But now a days leather is sanded or buffed or otherwise worked to remove imperfections and then heat plated after finishing process to give it an even/fine grain. Often one cant judge or its hard to judge the difference between cow or buffalo leather if heat plated perfectly. When it comes to finishing process its better if leather is natural finished because it will have less chances of cracking. Very heavy finished(means a thick layer of paint is applied to cover the imperfections) could result in cracking if quality paint/chemicals are not used.

WHICH LEATHER(COWHIDE OR BUFFALO HIDE) IS BETTER FOR A BOXING GEAR?

As we discussed before it will absolutely depend on what gear are we going to make.

For example. if you are making a boxing gloves and specially a sparring glove(as its padding is more on the softer side). It will be better to use Cowhide leather with good stretch for the fist area as it is more soft and fine. So it stretches with the padding, doesn't give much pressure to it and gives more room to it so that it stays soft because if leather is stiff for the fist part it wont give much room to the padding and padding being soft will be compressed effecting its performance and feel.

Same like this an expert manufacturer knows better what kind of leather will be good for a specific gear.

Hope you guys enjoyed reading!

Regards,
UMA Team.

 

[joeymarvelous]

Thanks very much UMA! I suppose I should have just asked my manufacturer first, but it's always good to get outside perspectives, and especially not rely on information solely from the person I'm buying from. Between UMA's wise words, and some other reading I've just done, I've decided that buffalo will only be offered custom, not stock, because it simply isn't stretchy enough to be trusted at molding around the many different shapes of hands that need gloves. I really appreciate the help, you guys, and I expect to have some sweet pictures for you really soon!

 

[joeymarvelous]

Are you sure it is Bison leather and not Asian water buffalo?

That's a really good question! It didn't even occur to me to ask. My manufacturer said I could get buffalo a little cheaper and I pictured bison without a second thought, but now that you mention it I guess the water buffalo is on the hoof a bit closer to Sialkot than European bison are. Is one better than the other for gloves and pads that you're aware of?

 

[Ryukyu Damashi]

Thai Smai used buffalo (asian buffalo) leather in the past. It was considered lower quality than leather.

 

[joeymarvelous]

Good to know, I'll make sure to stay away from the water buffalo. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Jaxxstatic]

Someone really needs to make kangaroo leather gloves. It has great tensile strength when split thin, and keeps its form well after stretching. It is also environmentally sound, depending on the supplier.
The best thing about it for me, though, is that scratches don't tend to harden and crust like they do with buffalo leather. They can be buffed out just like a good quality calf skin.

 

[joeymarvelous]

I'll ask him if he can get his hands on any kangaroo for you.