British MMA fans. Why are there no top level freestyle wrestling schools in UK?

[Dick_Stillhard]

I have been wondering why, in the UK, there aren't enough wrestling programmes/schools, compared to USA and Eastern Europe etc. I don't believe that even in Universities there are Wrestling programmes for students. Was this always the case?

The dominant wrestling nations in the Olympics for e.g tend to be US, Georgia, Russia, Turkey and Iran. Why do we focus less on freestyle wrestling, especially when it is an important aspect of MMA? I am yet to even see a British country involved at the top level of freestyle wrestling in the Olympics.

 

[lukeuidswords]

Yes, its never been a thing here

 

[Dick_Stillhard]

Yes, its never been a thing here

It seems Muay Thai and boxing are most popular then BJJ and Wrestling. I think striking seems to be the most practiced, would you agree?

 

[lukeuidswords]

It seems Muay Thai and boxing are most popular then BJJ and Wrestling. I think striking seems to be the most practiced, would you agree?

Oh yeah. Boxing is huge understandably and Muay Thai is very popular even if there aren't many who actively compete in it.

 

[Xuh]

Wrestling was popular in some regions of the UK in the first half of the last century (the most famous being Lancashire Catch Wrestling) and Freestyle Wrestling in the early Olympics came in as something derived from UK/US catch wrestling. However it degenerated into pro wrasslin when wrestlers who fought for money realised they could make more money by faking bouts to make them more exiting to sell more tickets, and the actual sport of wrestling died out. Boxing cornered the 'prizefighting' market for rough poor people who wanted to make money fighting (people punching each other was/is more fun for the public to watch than wrestling, hence why wrestling went fake to draw crowds), and people started dressing up in kimonos and LARping as ninjas in the 60s and 70s for richer people who wanted to pretend they could fight (without actually having to fight, and find out they couldn't) and make-believe they were mystical Asian warriors (kinda proto-weebs, really). Also people moved to the city and had TVs and toys and money and stuff so didn't have to brawl with each other in a field somewhere for entertainment anymore.

In America, wrestling was preserved as a sport by its inclusion in the collegate system early in the last century, which cemented its status and provided America with the largest pool of wrestlers in the world; otherwise maybe it would have gone the same way there.
the UK doesn't have a collegate sport system like America's so there wouldn't be a 'university wrestling programme' like US universities have. Sport in the UK is mostly done by interested amateurs forming clubs. Wrestling is also the worst funded Olympic sport here with a UK sport funding grant of £0, so the British Wrestling org can't set up a schools programme even if they wanted to try. Funding is set at £0 because Britain didn't win anything in wrestling for a long time, so it's a vicious circle.

In the Soviet bloc, they were protected from decadent crapitalist habits like Pro Wrasslin and Kung Fu Bullshido by Communism, and the Commies were very keen on winning at sport to provide propaganda to demonstrate their 'superiority' over kepitalism. Olympic sports were very well funded by the government and a lot of effort put into sports programmes, and becoming a sportsman was a highly desirable life choice for a Soviet bloc citizen. Like everywhere else (including Britain), there were various native wrestling styles and regions of greater popularity in the eastern bloc, with the epicentre being in the Caucasus mountains (Georgia, Azerbaijan, Dagestan, Chechnya, Ossetia, etc), where crazy mountain men who like to herd goats and fight all day long live, hence most of their best came from that region (the USSR's other main wrestling region being Siberian Ghengis Khanoid types). It's sorta similar with Iran and Turkey (macho nonwestern culture, not much to do but fight in the hills all day, etc).

MMA is still new. Wrestling was already dead in the UK before MMA came along, you can't magically revive a corpse just because it turns out it was actually pretty useful in a real fight and Carl Douglas's Kung Fu fighting wasn't after all. Interest has grown somewhat due to MMA, but it's still a long way to go before it becomes an established sport again, like it is pretty much everywhere else in the world.

 

[The Reed]

Wrestling was popular in some regions of the UK in the first half of the last century (the most famous being Lancashire Catch Wrestling) and Freestyle Wrestling in the early Olympics came in as something derived from UK/US catch wrestling. However it degenerated into pro wrasslin when wrestlers who fought for money realised they could make more money by faking bouts to make them more exiting to sell more tickets, and the actual sport of wrestling died out. Boxing cornered the 'prizefighting' market for rough poor people who wanted to make money fighting (people punching each other was/is more fun for the public to watch than wrestling, hence why wrestling went fake to draw crowds), and people started dressing up in kimonos and LARping as ninjas in the 60s and 70s for richer people who wanted to pretend they could fight (without actually having to fight, and find out they couldn't) and make-believe they were mystical Asian warriors (kinda proto-weebs, really). Also people moved to the city and had TVs and toys and money and stuff so didn't have to brawl with each other in a field somewhere for entertainment anymore.

In America, wrestling was preserved as a sport by its inclusion in the collegate system early in the last century, which cemented its status and provided America with the largest pool of wrestlers in the world; otherwise maybe it would have gone the same way there.
the UK doesn't have a collegate sport system like America's so there wouldn't be a 'university wrestling programme' like US universities have. Sport in the UK is mostly done by interested amateurs forming clubs. Wrestling is also the worst funded Olympic sport here with a UK sport funding grant of £0, so the British Wrestling org can't set up a schools programme even if they wanted to try. Funding is set at £0 because Britain didn't win anything in wrestling for a long time, so it's a vicious circle.

In the Soviet bloc, they were protected from decadent crapitalist habits like Pro Wrasslin and Kung Fu Bullshido by Communism, and the Commies were very keen on winning at sport to provide propaganda to demonstrate their 'superiority' over kepitalism. Olympic sports were very well funded by the government and a lot of effort put into sports programmes, and becoming a sportsman was a highly desirable life choice for a Soviet bloc citizen. Like everywhere else (including Britain), there were various native wrestling styles and regions of greater popularity in the eastern bloc, with the epicentre being in the Caucasus mountains (Georgia, Azerbaijan, Dagestan, Chechnya, Ossetia, etc), where crazy mountain men who like to herd goats and fight all day long live, hence most of their best came from that region (the USSR's other main wrestling region being Siberian Ghengis Khanoid types). It's sorta similar with Iran and Turkey (macho nonwestern culture, not much to do but fight in the hills all day, etc).

MMA is still new. Wrestling was already dead in the UK before MMA came along, you can't magically revive a corpse just because it turns out it was actually pretty useful in a real fight and Carl Douglas's Kung Fu fighting wasn't after all. Interest has grown somewhat due to MMA, but it's still a long way to go before it becomes an established sport again, like it is pretty much everywhere else in the world.

Nice post!

 

[Hidden_Hand]

To put it bluntly no one here can handle it and would just take the piss out of it.

When I used to train, Wednesday nights was wrestling with a coach from the USA and to put it in one word it was fucking brutal by far and wide the hardest physical thing I have ever done.

Boxing, Kick boxing, cardio etc. classes were full, 20-25 guys training hard, Wednesday? 4 yes, fucking 4 of us would turn up to wrestle with this once in a life time coach for where I am from, it was disgraceful.

UK will never have truly, respected dominant fighters because they are ignorant to such a vital part of this sport and it is a shame.

When we would have full MMA classes on the weekend, the difference between us guys who trained the proper wrestling with the coach was amazing to the ones who didn't, we would dominate them and our cardio went to new heights.

Can't imagine NCAA

 

[Dick_Stillhard]

To put it bluntly no one here can handle it and would just take the piss out of it.

When I used to train, Wednesday nights was wrestling with a coach from the USA and to put it in one word it was fucking brutal by far and wide the hardest physical thing I have ever done.

Boxing, Kick boxing, cardio etc. classes were full, 20-25 guys training hard, Wednesday? 4 yes, fucking 4 of us would turn up to wrestle with this once in a life time coach for where I am from, it was disgraceful.

UK will never have truly, respected dominant fighters because they are ignorant to such a vital part of this sport and it is a shame.

When we would have full MMA classes on the weekend, the difference between us guys who trained the proper wrestling with the coach was amazing to the ones who didn't, we would dominate them and our cardio went to new heights.

Can't imagine NCAA

Are there any legit wrestling classes in the UK any more? Like you say, you had a coach from the US. Surely it would be possible to bring over some Eastern European coaches to teach it? Even though I am not going to compete in MMA, I would like to learn wrestling. I believe the Gracie BJJ school in London has a dedicated wrestling class, but not sure who teaches it.

 

[Xuh]

To put it bluntly no one here can handle it and would just take the piss out of it.

When I used to train, Wednesday nights was wrestling with a coach from the USA and to put it in one word it was fucking brutal by far and wide the hardest physical thing I have ever done.

Boxing, Kick boxing, cardio etc. classes were full, 20-25 guys training hard, Wednesday? 4 yes, fucking 4 of us would turn up to wrestle with this once in a life time coach for where I am from, it was disgraceful.

UK will never have truly, respected dominant fighters because they are ignorant to such a vital part of this sport and it is a shame.

When we would have full MMA classes on the weekend, the difference between us guys who trained the proper wrestling with the coach was amazing to the ones who didn't, we would dominate them and our cardio went to new heights.

Can't imagine NCAA

I don't think that's uncommon even in the USA either, from what I gather ppl trying to set up private clubs or attach themselves to smalltown MMA gyms also experience low turnout for wrestling classes in the USA.

I guess it's just being able to have a captive audience of eager young schoolkids that gives you the ability to grind them hard (err.... don't call Operation Yewtree...)

From what I gather E-Euro style practices are also much less intense.

I had a similar experience, the local MMA gym had a Polish coach who had been in America and was an all-american, sometimes I would duck practices just out of fear of the warmup, lol.
Some other times I'd turn up to wrestling classes and be the only guy there, basically getting a 1-2-1 with the head coach of London Shoot...

But prior to that I was lucky to be somewhere where some American students set up a uni club for a few years (a guy from Texas and a gal from Cali/Havard), which taught basics to begin with (most clubs are 'sink or swim' even if you find one) and was much more reasonably paced (or maybe I was just younger and fitter then...)

Are there any legit wrestling classes in the UK any more? Like you say, you had a coach from the US. Surely it would be possible to bring over some Eastern European coaches to teach it? Even though I am not going to compete in MMA, I would like to learn wrestling. I believe the Gracie BJJ school in London has a dedicated wrestling class, but not sure who teaches it.

The British wrestling org has a list of clubs, these are clubs that will run sports wrestling sessions (as opposed to just 'wrestling for MMA') with actually certified wrestling coaches.
http://www.britishwrestling.org/clubs.asp?section=29&sectionTitle=Find+a+Club

There are even a few catch wrestling clubs affiliated with the original Snakepit (which also still runs out of Wigan). Well, only 3 clubs...
http://www.snakepitwigan.com/

otherwise you'd be best off checking your local MMA gym, some clubs run wrestling sessions, quality will vary, usually will have East Euro, Iranian, or Indian coaches if they are any good. I know most of the London MMA gyms seem to have East Euro guys.

Ironically, it might actually be easier to start wrasslin' as an adult in the UK than America (since it seems that once you're past school/college age, you're done as far as a lot of sports goes in the US?)

 

[ArtemV]

"Few Top Level Freestyle Wrestling Schools in UK?"

There is a top level school in Great Britain? I know that there is a school in Manchester with a wrestler called Muhammad Mokaev, who is quite good for being a British wrestler, but not good internationally.. that's why he travels to Ukraine for wrestling camps.

Mike Grundy is quite an interesting prospect too. He is a decent wrestler who won the Commonwealth games, while most college wrestlers and jncaa wrestlers would out wrestle him, he is quite good in mma. I have been to a wrestling club in Edinburgh when I went, it was quite good. But nowhere near as many people as I would find in a Russia wrestling class, or USA class. There just isn't interest.

 

[Dick_Stillhard]

I don't think that's uncommon even in the USA either, from what I gather ppl trying to set up private clubs or attach themselves to smalltown MMA gyms also experience low turnout for wrestling classes in the USA.

I guess it's just being able to have a captive audience of eager young schoolkids that gives you the ability to grind them hard (err.... don't call Operation Yewtree...)

From what I gather E-Euro style practices are also much less intense.

I had a similar experience, the local MMA gym had a Polish coach who had been in America and was an all-american, sometimes I would duck practices just out of fear of the warmup, lol.
Some other times I'd turn up to wrestling classes and be the only guy there, basically getting a 1-2-1 with the head coach of London Shoot...

But prior to that I was lucky to be somewhere where some American students set up a uni club for a few years (a guy from Texas and a gal from Cali/Havard), which taught basics to begin with (most clubs are 'sink or swim' even if you find one) and was much more reasonably paced (or maybe I was just younger and fitter then...)



The British wrestling org has a list of clubs, these are clubs that will run sports wrestling sessions (as opposed to just 'wrestling for MMA') with actually certified wrestling coaches.
http://www.britishwrestling.org/clubs.asp?section=29&sectionTitle=Find+a+Club

There are even a few catch wrestling clubs affiliated with the original Snakepit (which also still runs out of Wigan). Well, only 3 clubs...
http://www.snakepitwigan.com/

otherwise you'd be best off checking your local MMA gym, some clubs run wrestling sessions, quality will vary, usually will have East Euro, Iranian, or Indian coaches if they are any good. I know most of the London MMA gyms seem to have East Euro guys.

Ironically, it might actually be easier to start wrasslin' as an adult in the UK than America (since it seems that once you're past school/college age, you're done as far as a lot of sports goes in the US?)

I would like to take wrestling classes as a hobby and to keep fit. I was planning to travel to Russia, Georgia and Turkey for a year, just for a holiday and for sightseeing mainly, but was going to see if it would be possible to find wrestling classes in those countries where I could train. As a westerner, I was curious how difficult that would be. Do you think they would welcome a beginner like me from a western country?

 

[Dick_Stillhard]

"Few Top Level Freestyle Wrestling Schools in UK?"

There is a top level school in Great Britain? I know that there is a school in Manchester with a wrestler called Muhammad Mokaev, who is quite good for being a British wrestler, but not good internationally.. that's why he travels to Ukraine for wrestling camps.

Mike Grundy is quite an interesting prospect too. He is a decent wrestler who won the Commonwealth games, while most college wrestlers and jncaa wrestlers would out wrestle him, he is quite good in mma. I have been to a wrestling club in Edinburgh when I went, it was quite good. But nowhere near as many people as I would find in a Russia wrestling class, or USA class. There just isn't interest.

Yeah I should have said there were not any top level wrestling schools. I mean I'm sure there are good classes, but it's a shame we have none at all. I do think it would take British mma fighters' ability to the next level. We need more top level wrestling training. I would like to train it simply to improve my fitness and all around athletic ability. You are from Russia, right? Would it be possible to train in wrestling in Russia as a beginner like myself or do they only focus on Russian prospects?

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Lee Murray (aka sha la la la lee) was able to defeat Tito Ortiz without wrestling. rutten was able to defeat randleman without wrestling.

 

[DoubleAAZ]

We love wrestling and have great Iranian coaches in Bristol UK

 

[cheesus]

Yes, its never been a thing here

Not exactly true, I mean catch wrestling did originate in the UK.

 

[chubbman]

It’s just not a thing here. MMA is so far behind boxing that wrestling just isn’t acknowledged. Even in MMA gyms you might get one or two classes a week. That’s it. Guys like Mike Grundy who have a fairly legit wrestling background really are one in a million.

 

[BobsyaUncle]

Because it's gay.

 

[imarayda]

Where are the ones in the US? I can’t think of any high level wrestling that isn’t attached to some kind of collegiate system. The only wrestling instruction I see, in San Diego anyway, is attached to school or just a few classes here and there attached to mma schools.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

In us its in schools. Here it's non existent