BREXIT Discussion, v3.0: World Leaders' Reaction After The U.K Voted To Leave The European Union.

[Awesomesauce]

That's not the argument I made. And I'm not 100% sure you understand the structure of the EU. EU laws largely relate to trade i.e. free movement of capital and labour. Either way, as part of the EEA we would have to accept those rules in any case. The rules that we would get sovereignty over would be those that we largely had opt outs from in any case.

This is about as functionally truthful as the US Constitutions Commerce Clause only being used for commerce. The EU not only had tremendous power to effect many functional realities within the UK, but you act like controlling the movement of capital and labor is some small thing. Its not, its massive. The single biggest problem in the UK according to the population was the immigrant flood which not only wasn't being abated, it was being exasperated.

If that organisation is determining that the roads leading to my house can only be used by electric cars, and I only buy petrol cars, then you be damn sure I would want to change that rule to serve my interests.

What does that have to do with your control over your home? You said that it was a different form of sovereignty, that was absurd. I very much agree that there are times when it is better to join others in a communal democratic form of social structure.

Which is why the educated, the young and the cities voted to remain.

I am more educated then you will ever dream of being. You don't know what your talking about.

 

[Sauron]

It means we opposed it, yet it was passed anyway.

it's a rhetorical question in response to a stupid statement.

My point stands. We had influence on all of them.

 

[Codger]

I think it's a mistake to believe that half of the UK are nationalist bigots or idiots who were conned by nationalists. The UK has been unhappy with the EU for a long time. We have a unique history as a powerful island nation with way more influence than our size would appear to dictate. Like all countries we have a particular national psyche and it is not one that sits comfortably with the way the EU goes about doing things. Sovreignty means a lot to the average Brit. We're proud of our parliamentary democracy and how we've spread it around the world. We've been a pain the ass of the EU for a long time - always the whining cousin not happy with the family plans.

I think a break was inevitable at some point and if handled well will work out fine for both us and the EU who will be free to pursue their idealistic dreams whilst we act in our more pragmatic, British way.

 

[Sauron]

nonsense

I couldn't care less about your form over substance argument.

It has everything to do with control of your home. If you can't access the road with your car then you can't get to work. You may have to walk to work and accept a lesser paying job. Which in turn means you can't equip your home with the fittings and fixtures you would like to have. If you give up that higher level decision making capability you lose control.

I'm arguing about the UK disadvantaging itself by leaving the EU, and you want to get into the semantics of sovereignty. I don't have time for that shit.

 

[conorbless1]

I am more educated then you will ever dream of being. You don't know what your talking about.

*than
*you're

 

[Tycho]

Such nonsense. It only takes a few minutes speaking to pensioners about the present day to understand that the above is utter bollocks.

London is the economic driving force of this country. Of course it voted for remain.

The educated that you put forward is just retarded. You live in London. Most of these people have long since left universities across the country and developed their professional career.

Got any evidence mate? I talked to hundreds of older people during the referendum run-up, very few crazies. They were mostly ordinary people who had thought deeply about the issue. Remember that many older people voted to join the EEC, and have witnessed its change of direction first hand. Its fairly logical for them to assume that this trend will continue, and they decided on balance it was better not to be apart of that.

There are indeed plenty of highly skilled professionals in London, but its highly skewed towards the finance sector. They were voting in their personal interests, not out of some existential truth privileged only to university grads. Immigration is also handled far better in London than elsewhere in the UK, here we actually do get the best/brightest from Europe, but its a different world elsewhere. If you never come into contact with the dirty world you helped build you may also believe it to be an illusion.

 

[Tycho]

Gotcha. At the same time though don't you think Cameron is at heart a globalist who would dance with the devil in the pale moonlight if given the chance? What I'm saying is, he isn't big on national sovereignty.

I think he's the same as almost every global leader, just another puppet for central banks.

 

[ncordless]

I think it's a mistake to believe that half of the UK are nationalist bigots or idiots who were conned by nationalists. The UK has been unhappy with the EU for a long time. We have a unique history as a powerful island nation with way more influence than our size would appear to dictate. Like all countries we have a particular national psyche and it is not one that sits comfortably with the way the EU goes about doing things. Sovreignty means a lot to the average Brit. We're proud of our parliamentary democracy and how we've spread it around the world. We've been a pain the ass of the EU for a long time - always the whining cousin not happy with the family plans.

I think a break was inevitable at some point and if handled well will work out fine for both us and the EU who will be free to pursue their idealistic dreams whilst we act in our more pragmatic, British way.

I can see this and believe this is probably the ling term outcome. In some ways, the UK weakened the EU because it demanded special treatment. The EU may eventually be stronger now that it can deal with its remaining members equally. The UK, if it can avoid splitting up and can get good deals, could gain as well, and the funny part will be that the deals will likely result in following many of the same laws that the true xenophobes objected to in the first place.

Of couse, that's an optimistic projection. Results may be more negative.

 

[Tycho]

it's a rhetorical question in response to a stupid statement.

My point stands. We had influence on all of them.

You made a rhetorical question in place of evidence?

Maybe you should go back to nursery school debating.

 

[Awesomesauce]

I couldn't care less about your form over substance argument.

I'm arguing about the UK disadvantaging itself by leaving the EU, and you want to get into the semantics of sovereignty. I don't have time for that shit.

No, you stated some absurd third law of sovereignty, sovereignty is neither lost nor destroyed it just changes form. I pointed out that was clearly wrong.

As to whether this is good or bad for the UK remains to be seen. It is no doubt bad for globalists though.

 

[Sauron]

Honest question here, how do you know the 'educated' voted overwhelmingly to remain? Is there some sort of reliable data base validating this?

And furthermore, what specific 'education' made up the majority of said 'educated voters'? Were they all 'economics' majors, for example?

There's polling.

 

[Awesomesauce]

*than
*you're

Substantive and intellectual. A real contribution to the thread.

 

[in the]

A lot of people just talk and act like they have it all figured out. More people on this forum would be more humble and better to just admit that they are nobodies, and have no power, real wealth or "inside" knowledge. If you don't have a PHD in finance or Economics and know all the inner workings of trade then I think a person should shut their mouth and stop acting like they are an expert on what will happen following Brexit. At most they have educated guesses and only parrot what the experts on TV and in media say.

By all means have an opinion but don't be so self righteous. I see a lot of that from the "remain" campaign. And have seen a lot of that on social media.

FYI I supported Remaining (and am not a UK citizen) I thought the UK had a good deal. I do however, dislike the whining and the attacks on the democratic process by those who are butthurt that their side lost.

Funny thing is, having a Ph.D in economics also doesn't mean the voice behind an idea has a clue as to what's going to happen with markets. It's almost an exercise in futility, though I must admit the doom and gloom posts entertain me.

 

[Sauron]

No, you stated some absurd third law of sovereignty, sovereignty is neither lost nor destroyed it just changes form. I pointed out that was clearly wrong.

As to whether this is good or bad for the UK remains to be seen. It is no doubt bad for globalists though.

Save it for your essay, bro.

It sure is bad for the NWO. Keep your tin-foil hat on.

 

[ncordless]

No, you stated some absurd third law of sovereignty, sovereignty is neither lost nor destroyed it just changes form. I pointed out that was clearly wrong.

As to whether this is good or bad for the UK remains to be seen. It is no doubt bad for globalists though.

It is clearly right that sovereignty is not created or destroyed. It doesn't even change form. It just changes hands.

 

[RockstarChris]

Why do people always talk about "The educated vote?" Just because you went to college doesn't mean you are smart. I went to college and most of my classmates were idiots.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

*than
*you're

Don't be one of those fucking geeks.

 

[Sauron]

You made a rhetorical question in place of evidence?

Maybe you should go back to nursery school debating.

Maybe your primitive brain doesn't understand the point. An EU directive is not a win or a loss. It's a document that's been drafted and had input from all the member states. Whether the UK opposed it on a point of principal is entirely irrelevant if it's had its voice heard.

I'm sorry that it was difficult to understand. Maybe you should consult with awesomesource and his superior grammar and edumacation.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

No, I do not support Turkey in the E.U. They do not meet the standards at all. I mean
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/jo...nsult.aspx?pageID=238&nID=80587&NewsCatID=339
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The list is very long for why they are not ready for EU membership.

Your other point I do not regard as a significant issue at all.
It's true that Schengen did bring some increased crime rates with it, in particular with the inclusion of Eastern Europe. But things are getting better.
I have seen no indicator or reasoning for why nonwhite immigrants should become a particular problem inside Schengen in the future. But I think we have established that radical difference between you and I before.

Well if that stuff bothers you then you shouldn't let Moldova, Ukraine, Georgia, or any of the Balkan states in. I personally see a lot of the opposition to Turkey in the EU stemming from Germanic/Nordic racism. Turkey is in Europe partly and has more of a reason to be in the EU then some of the nations that the EU purses or put into the EU. I mean Turkey has more of a right in the EU then Cyprus.

And yeah we have radical differences on our views regarding my other points. I am in favor of preserving Europe's people, culture, and ways of life. I think that can still exist even with Turkey in the EU. I don't believe that millions of Turks will flood throughout and takeover Europe. If anything they are most likely to go to countries like Germany and France if I am not mistaken.

 

[Sauron]

Why do people always talk about "The educated vote?" Just because you went to college doesn't mean you are smart. I went to college and most of my classmates were idiots.

People with education and career development (whether university or vocational) 'tend' to be smarter.

There, I said it.

Referendums on constitutional issues are also retarded. My opinion only.