Brachial stun- legit or not?

[Connoisseur]

we use a hammerfist. back of the neck about 3 inch across from the spine, will often take someone out but never a certainty with any strike.

You are a Thai Boxer, correct Payak? Just wondering what style you mean when you say "we".

It looks like a forearm to the jaw, but regardless, that was an interesting technical twist on the ol' suckerpunch.

Anyway... I'm skeptical about the "brachial stun" in the video, but I do know that the side of the neck is an excellent target for a round kick. I suppose if you could generate the same kind of force with a hand strike it would have the same effect.

Agreed, it looks like the the forearm/ outer wrist area.

That one works too. the brachial stun is nothing special. I have been hit with it and hit opponents with it. And it does not require much accuracy either. We used to call it dead arm striking. It does not knock the opponent out so much as scramble the the nerve signals down the left side of the body.

A quick way to try it out is to get a partner that will left you hit them in the side of the neck. Next you just swing you right inner forearm at the left side of their neck. It will cause a minor blood surge to the brain and compress a major nerve bundle that controls the left arm and leg. They probably won't pass out, but should momentarily lose control of the left arm and left leg. That stun gives you time to deliver a proper knock out shot. Think of it as a prefect sucker punch instead of a knock out shot.

Cool man, one of the best answers yet.

I don't think i'll be able to find anyone willing to take a shot to the neck, but if I do I will try it out! Haha.

 

[samb867]

I had my karate instructor do this to me once when we were training knife defences. Wasn't knocked out but it blacked out my vision for a second. Can't say I experienced a lack of control of my limbs though. Interesting.

 

[barnowl]

I had my karate instructor do this to me once when we were training knife defences. Wasn't knocked out but it blacked out my vision for a second. Can't say I experienced a lack of control of my limbs though. Interesting.

Sounds like you took more of the blood surge than the nerve hit, but yeah, that blackout second is what you are looking to cause.

 

[Cannon_6]

...I don't think i'll be able to find anyone willing to take a shot to the neck, but if I do I will try it out! Haha.

If "willing" doesn't work out for you, there's always "unsuspecting". :icon_chee

 

[Shemhazai]

Blood chokes work because they stimulate the baroreceptors in the carotid arteries that tell the brain to regulate the blood pressure. (Not because of a lack of blood to the brain, this is a misconception.) If you strike these receptors, it could probably have some effect. Does seem low percentage, though.

 

[Jaxx]

Look into W.E Fairbairn and the 'edge of hand blow'.

In fact here is 'Get Tough!'...

GetTough! - Fairbairn/Sykes

 

[Ranger]

Brachial stun does work effectively if executed properly. The video with the pimp was a brachial stun. Having said that, its hard to land effectively. I've seen it used once in real life and once in training (poor volunteer), it works only as well as the precision and force with which it is delivered. Dude is a karate and defensive tactics instructor, dont recall what "style".

 

[Doughbelly]

Blood chokes work because they stimulate the baroreceptors in the carotid arteries that tell the brain to regulate the blood pressure. (Not because of a lack of blood to the brain, this is a misconception.) If you strike these receptors, it could probably have some effect. Does seem low percentage, though.

That's not necessarily the consensus. I think EternalRage and I had this discussion about the vasovegal reflex and carotid baroreceptor stimulation here at one point.

The "brachial stun" has little to do with carotid baroreceptor stimulation. It has more your cervical plexus getting smacked. There's a reason it's located under your sternocleidomastoid (that's the big neck muscle that runs from you collar bone to under your ear).

A long time ago, I lost a fight by KO by catching an elbow to the side of the neck. For me, it wasn't one of those KOs where I lost consciousness but rather one where I couldn't get back on my feet because nothing was working right. I flopped twice and was nowhere even close to beating the count - and in Korea, the ref never waves the fight before he's done counting.

That was the only time I've ever been hit with it.

 

[Payak]

when i say we conniseur i am talking about practitioners of the other traditional arts i have studied.
Muay Boran and the less known lerdrit.
in krabi krabong we also use strikes also, not only weopon.
I don't call myself a muay thai fighter really, i think i am a student of all thai arts, a student with lots more to learn.
now i am exploring, even exploring a little bjj.
but my fighting days are over now due to serious head injury last year.

 

[Connoisseur]

Well I'm sorry to hear that Payak. Don't see too many Muay Boran, Krabi Krabong, and Lerdrit practicioners here on the SD boards, i'm glad to get your input.

 

[Connoisseur]

If "willing" doesn't work out for you, there's always "unsuspecting".

*Walks up to kind elderly woman at bus stop*

"JUDO CHOP, BITCH!"

*Fleas country*

 

[Connoisseur]

That's not necessarily the consensus. I think EternalRage and I had this discussion about the vasovegal reflex and carotid baroreceptor stimulation here at one point.

The "brachial stun" has little to do with carotid baroreceptor stimulation. It has more your cervical plexus getting smacked. There's a reason it's located under your sternocleidomastoid (that's the big neck muscle that runs from you collar bone to under your ear).

A long time ago, I lost a fight by KO by catching an elbow to the side of the neck. For me, it wasn't one of those KOs where I lost consciousness but rather one where I couldn't get back on my feet because nothing was working right. I flopped twice and was nowhere even close to beating the count - and in Korea, the ref never waves the fight before he's done counting.

That was the only time I've ever been hit with it.

Well, you sound knowledgable bud, so I will take your word for it.

Do you think that's what causes knockdowns/ knockouts when you see a kick clearly strike the neck? Because it doesn't seem like a neck kick would jostle the brain hard enough for a KO, but you still see guys go down like a sack of bricks.

Brachial stun does work effectively if executed properly. The video with the pimp was a brachial stun. Having said that, its hard to land effectively. I've seen it used once in real life and once in training (poor volunteer), it works only as well as the precision and force with which it is delivered. Dude is a karate and defensive tactics instructor, dont recall what "style".

Good comment.

To be honest, I suspected it was legit, but just difficult to pull off in a live combat situation.

 

[OhNoZ]

that clip is actually of a undercover police officer who had enough with the pimp, lost his job and got sued. They show this technique (and that video) in the police academy as part of the defensive tactics portion and as something you cant do until you reach that level of reasonable force. while training it and only at a very light speed when you get hit it will cause tingling. we of course never hit eachother hard enough to cause anything more but i'm sure it works. It does make your body more defunct then KO'ing you and like previously stated is meant so you can take that time for a takedown to control the person.

its typically a backhand or open palm strike and the instructor said the undercover cop used a backhand in the video (its hard to see). I don't think its used in mma because of its low percentage on someone who has been trained properly on how to defend themself. on a pimp that doesn't see it coming... your golden.

 

[KidKrav]

Is a knife hand any different from a Karate Chop?

No

Anyway... I'm skeptical about the "brachial stun" in the video, but I do know that the side of the neck is an excellent target for a round kick. I suppose if you could generate the same kind of force with a hand strike it would have the same effect.

Knife hand has a smaller surface area for the point of contact. Smaller surface area results in concentrated force.

try it on someone and put some power behind it...see if it works

A quick way to try it out is to get a partner that will left you hit them in the side of the neck. Next you just swing you right inner forearm at the left side of their neck. It will cause a minor blood surge to the brain and compress a major nerve bundle that controls the left arm and leg. They probably won't pass out, but should momentarily lose control of the left arm and left leg. That stun gives you time to deliver a proper knock out shot. Think of it as a prefect sucker punch instead of a knock out shot.

The results you get using this technique will vary greatly based on how exactly the strike lands and who it is being applied to. If you land it improperly it won't do anything but piss the person off. It you land it too well you might just kill the person you hit.

Part of what makes this technique affective is the vulnerability of the carotid artery.

(The big red thing with no protection)

The carotid artery carries blood to the brain. When a a person applies a blood choke (rear naked choke, triangle choke, etc.) they are cutting off blood flow to the brain by plugging this artery. If you strike the carotid with force you can cause an aneurysm (essentially an artery spasm which can cause weakening or a rupture in the artery wall) which is potentially lethal.

The possibility of someone falling and breaking their neck after being struck exists as well. I know of someone who punched another person in a bar who fell down and died from a broken neck.

Imprisoned for life

If "willing" doesn't work out for you, there's always "unsuspecting". :icon_chee

I don't think that sherdog appreciates the potential repercussions of this technique.

While it isn't a high percentage technique like the Five Point Kill Bill Death Touch, it's not something to take lightly either.

 

[KidKrav]

Aneurysm

 

[Connoisseur]

Interesting. I've been needing to add a deathblow into my repertoire.

 

[Blue Streak]

The way I have been taught to do this strike, you don't target the carotid artery but the pressure points in the neck. Like OhNoz says, it is generally done with a back hand strike as this gives you a greater striking area and hence a greater chance of hitting the pressure points.

In the original video clip the strike doesn't appear to be to the carotid artery either.

It is a strike that is generally best delivered from in close and as a counter. E.g. You deflect a strike, step in as they are pulling their hand back and deliver the backhand strike.

 

[Connoisseur]

Generally, as a rule of thumb, it's not a great idea to put yourself in position to go for a backhand though, because you're essentially letting them beat you with footwork.

If they block the backhand (which wouldn't be entirely hard), they've got a great angle on you completely away from your power hand. From there, the opponent can hit you with a right hand, grab an easy takedown, whatever.

I would rather not give up that angle.

 

[OhNoZ]

Generally, as a rule of thumb, it's not a great idea to put yourself in position to go for a backhand though, because you're essentially letting them beat you with footwork.

If they block the backhand (which wouldn't be entirely hard), they've got a great angle on you completely away from your power hand. From there, the opponent can hit you with a right hand, grab an easy takedown, whatever.

I would rather not give up that angle.

this is pretty relevant to why you don't see it in MMA or any other combat sport. Its a maneuver to use on the less knowledgable and when they are throwing that wild haymaker and your able to block it, its a quick step in with the backhand to mess up their equiliberium (cant spell that right now) and then proceed to another maneuver of choice. most criminals of general nature have no clue what footwork actually is or how to throw a proper strike.

 

[Cannon_6]

Interesting. I've been needing to add another deathblow into my repertoire.

Fixed.

You're welcome.