Boxing-Wrestling-Jiu Jitsu Triangle

[kammfreudenstei]

Ever heard the expression that wrestling beats boxing, boxing beats jiu jitsu, and jiu jitsu beats wrestling? I forget exactly where I heard it, or if it is a popular adage, but I find it funny that it has played out with the WBW champions.

Tate, the wrestler, beats the boxer, Holm, who beats the submission artist (Rouse is mainly judo but you get it, she's submission oriented), who beats Tate. Styles.... you get it

Disclaimer: I know they are all MMArtists and train all disciplines.

 

[dirtroller]

This is probably true stylistically, but I feel wrestlers achieve a higher success for a few reasons and it will remain that way until BJJ gains more widespread popularity.

1. Intense training and competitive emphasis from an early age . BJJ and even MMA training at most gyms feels like paddy cake compared to a typical high-level high school wrestling practice.
2. High rate of involvement. Almost every high-school in the county has a wrestling program and most of the successful wrestler start before middle school.
3. Very organized and developed amateur infrastructure. There is a set system of advancement in the amateur ranks all the way through college and the Olympics.
4. Relatively low risk of serious injury for younger practitioners. ( No brain damage or broken arms)
5. Financial incentive. Sure, you can't become a millionaire like in boxing, but that's like 10 guy in the world. Wrestling programs provide thousands of scholarships around the country.

Tate started training MMA if I'm, not an individual style - so i think being well rounded had more to do with her beating Holm more than anything.

 

[Odoylerules4lyf]

Where does movement fit into the triangle?

 

[CoolKnees]

Since when does boxing beat BJJ?

BJJ beats all styles equally IF the combatants have only one background as shown in UFC 1.

 

[Forever Young]

But tate submitted holm and rousey outstruck tate

 

[Forever Young]

And anyway, Rousey is a judoka. Who traces her lineage back directly to the greatest anti-boxing fighter ever: http://www.blackbeltmag.com/daily/m...defeats-boxer-milo-savage-in-first-mma-fight/

 

[bigred389]

But tate submitted holm and rousey outstruck tate

But Tate's wrestling is what got her in a position to apply a very simple choke. Twice.

And Rousey's submissions are what made Tate too careful to just repeatedly hit takedowns. The shitty striking vs shitty striking was a byproduct of that effect.

 

[dirtroller]

But tate submitted holm and rousey outstruck tate

And Ronda didn't even come from a BJJ background.

 

[Forever Young]

We all know the truth, pankration is the most superior form of martial art to ever exist. Everything else is just a bush-league knockoff or a waste of time

 

[kammfreudenstei]

Since when does boxing beat BJJ?

BJJ beats all styles equally IF the combatants have only one background as shown in UFC 1.

Traditionally jiu jitsu isn't very strong with the takedowns which is the better skill against a boxer that would be helpless on the ground anyways

 

[jase0910]

One style vs. one style, BJJ always wins. Period. It's been that way since UFC 1. But someone who's a good boxer and can wrestle/counter-wrestle can beat a pure BJJ practitioner.

 

[dirtroller]

Since when does boxing beat BJJ?

BJJ beats all styles equally IF the combatants have only one background as shown in UFC 1.

Most of the guys that competed in the early UFC events were bums even in their respective sports. Royce was one of the better BJJ black belts at the time.

 

[jase0910]

Traditionally jiu jitsu isn't very strong with the takedowns which is the better skill against a boxer that would be helpless on the ground anyways

Maybe not wrestling-style "takedowns", but BJJ includes a tremendous amount of clinch work, which leads to an easy take down of a pure boxer.

 

[kammfreudenstei]

One style vs. one style, BJJ always wins. Period. It's been that way since UFC 1. But someone who's a good boxer and can wrestle/counter-wrestle can beat a pure BJJ practitioner.

I like the BJJ guys chances vs. The boxer better than the other matchups

 

[jase0910]

Most of the guys that competed in the early UFC events were bums even in their respective sports. Royce was one of the better BJJ black belts at the time.

Are you kidding? Royce was the LEAST of the Gracie family, which is why he was chosen to represent the style at UFC 1, to prove it was the style, not the person that was superior. Rickson would have killed folks at UFC 1.

 

[kammfreudenstei]

Maybe not wrestling-style "takedowns", but BJJ includes a tremendous amount of clinch work, which leads to an easy take down of a pure boxer.

True, but to duck under a boxers punches and not get destroyed with no striking experience requires a lot of timing and anticipation for the takedown, something that is really stressed in wrestling. At least most BJJ I've taken wasn't takedown heavy

 

[platypus44]

I think that a big factor was that Holly was very very familiar with clinches - in fact, her boxing style involving stick and clinch as often as it involved stick and run. Ronda generally relied on clinches for takedowns so that Holly had much much better takedown defense against Ronda than against Tate. Add to this that Tate got to watch the Ronda fight and was a teammate of Pennington in Ultimate Fighter so that Tate was better able to avoid getting hit and was able to implement the duck and takedown strategy.
Still there may be some validity to the triangle.
In boxing it is often said that boxers beat punchers, brawlers beat boxers and punchers beat brawlers. Think about Ali/Frazier/Foreman.

 

[dirtroller]

Are you kidding? Royce was the LEAST of the Gracie family, which is why he was chosen to represent the style at UFC 1, to prove it was the style, not the person that was superior. Rickson would have killed folks at UFC 1.

Royce had been training BJJ since he was in diapers, most of the guys in the early UFC weren't that great at their own sports.

 

[CoolKnees]

Royce had been training BJJ since he was in diapers, most of the guys at UFC 1 were weekend warriors.

What are you even talking about? BJJ beats all individual styles, this was proven in UFC 1 and early MMA.

No serious MMA fighter neglects BJJ. It is the most fundamental art.