Law Boxer with male XY chromosomes wins olympic bout in 46 seconds via KO

[Soggust]

are you dense or something?

we already went over this, XX males with penis and testicles are men

I probably am.

Can you explain what you mean by "intersex female" here when you are referring to people with XX chromosomes?

Naw, if you a gal, produce more than most other gals, naturally, xx chromosomes, intersex female, you should absolutely be able to compete.

 

[Hog-train]

Fair, but I think the rarity is relevant because let's say we solve the problem of these hypothetical 1:100,000 5ARD people (im being generous, I think) with hidden testes infiltrating women's sports.

However, if we go by chromosomes, what are we doing with the ~1:25,000 XX people that have fuckin penises and male levels of testosterone (de la Chapelle syndrome) lol?

Is it really going to be a better look in 4 years in LA if some XX auto mechanic from Oklahoma with a beard and a dick beats the shit out of some frail Swiss woman? And we are saying that this is like..... 4x more likely?

Remember we don't test for testosterone because women (like normal, XX real cis vagina babymakers whatever tf you want to call them) can often have male levels of testosterone and some males still test at women's levels (see: Jones, Jon).

There is no completely fair solution because it is not plausible to do extensive individual testing for each person.

Just like most countries have an arbitrary age where people are considered adults (18.) So we have to just make an arbitrary distinction. Mine is pretty simple. If you have a Y in your chromosomes, then you have to compete with males. If you happen to have XX and male testosterone, then you're a genetic freak but can still compete with females.

You can easily test for chromosomes with a cheek swab test.

 

[Soggust]

There is no completely fair solution because it is not plausible to do extensive individual testing for each person.

Just like most countries have an arbitrary age where people are considered adults (18.) So we have to just make an arbitrary distinction. Mine is pretty simple. If you have a Y in your chromosomes, then you have to compete with males. If you happen to have XX and male testosterone, then you're a genetic freak but can still compete with females.

You can easily test for chromosomes with a cheek swab test.

I agree there is no fair solution, I'm just concerned the chromosomes approach exacerbates the problem and I don't think it's the easy catch-all that it appears to be on the surface.

Feels like if we know it won't be perfect in any solution, then I think sex assigned at birth makes the most sense because that covers the tranny-for-a-day scenario and is the fairest to intersex people imo, but I think your perspective is consistent enough that I can respect it.

 

[Hog-train]

I agree there is no fair solution, I'm just concerned the chromosomes approach exacerbates the problem and I don't think it's the easy catch-all that it appears to be on the surface.

Feels like if we know it won't be perfect in any solution, then I think sex assigned at birth makes the most sense because that covers the tranny-for-a-day scenario and is the fairest to intersex people imo, but I think your perspective is consistent enough that I can respect it.

Yea I'm gonna say a big fat no to that. Sex assigned at birth doesn't mitigate male puberty. That is a massive advantage - not a little advantage - but massive.

Intersex conditions are super rare yet somehow two won in the same sport in one Olympics. And that will only increase if you let it. It is already disallowed in some of the other Olympic sports.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I agree there is no fair solution, I'm just concerned the chromosomes approach exacerbates the problem and I don't think it's the easy catch-all that it appears to be on the surface.

Feels like if we know it won't be perfect in any solution, then I think sex assigned at birth makes the most sense because that covers the tranny-for-a-day scenario and is the fairest to intersex people imo, but I think your perspective is consistent enough that I can respect it.

Combine the two. Chromosomes and external sex characteristics assigned at birth. Maybe add in T levels too.
Female sports will be ruined when it's completely dominated by people that do not really look like females. And when the winners have what is otherwise considered to be a disorder.

 

[Soggust]

Yea I'm gonna say a big fat no to that. Sex assigned at birth doesn't mitigate male puberty. That is a massive advantage - not a little advantage - but massive.

Sorry, I'm prolly slow here but I'm honestly not sure what you mean by this.

Sex assigned at birth would only have male puberty in the intersex conditions, right?

If the answer is "Yeah, but we need to ensure the XY female intersex people don't compete because they can potentially go through male puberty", then that's cool, but again we are already allowing that with the XX male intersex people that we said earlier we would allow in the women's division.

Since these folks can also go through puberty and are more common population-wise, I am not seeing where we are mitigating this massive advantage, but rather shifting it to more male presenting people.

 

[Soggust]

Combine the two. Chromosomes and external sex characteristics assigned at birth. Maybe add in T levels too.

Not a bad idea in theory, but where we do we set the levels? Is it a combination of failing multiple categories or is it failing any of the 3?

Even then, the problem is that there are different degrees of intersex in addition. Just because someone is XY doesn't necessarily mean that they have elevated testosterone or operable internal organs. So in addition to the 3 categories, there are like a zillion exceptions within them.

I would say we let the organization decide (bc prolly a diff between chess + mma), but the righties don't like the IOC ruling and the lefties don't like the IBA ruling, so no one wins there either.

Female sports will be ruined when it's completely dominated by people that do not really look like females. And when the winners have what is otherwise considered to be a disorder.

"look like females" a bit subjective lol. By that argument, Cyborg or Kayla already ruined MMA. Women's sports have always been dominated by ugly women.

But why do we even consider it a disorder? Why isn't it a blessing like Jones having a 96" reach or Wemby being 22 feet tall? If she's born with crazy testosterone and still has a vagina, why is that different than being born with crazy testosterone and being a woman with PCOS, from a competitive standpoint?

 

[KaNesDeath]

Thats not the same as saying its not against the rules to have elevated testosterone.

Acceptable level i believe is the same as men. For during a segment of their menstrual cycle women have elevated testosterone comparable to men.

 

[djacobox372]

There is no completely fair solution because it is not plausible to do extensive individual testing for each person.

Just like most countries have an arbitrary age where people are considered adults (18.) So we have to just make an arbitrary distinction. Mine is pretty simple. If you have a Y in your chromosomes, then you have to compete with males. If you happen to have XX and male testosterone, then you're a genetic freak but can still compete with females.

You can easily test for chromosomes with a cheek swab test.

With you mostly... the fact that a test doesn't catch 100% of the cheaters doesn't mean we shouldn't test. A Y chromosome test will catch most.

As for Chapelle syndrome... I would still make it illegal for those men to compete with women, but admit that it would be difficult to identify those cheaters if they are post-op trans.

 

[Osculater]

Bonus points for correct pronoun.

Female is not a pronoun

 

[Osculater]

Time for some assholes to cough up the cash.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jk-r...harassment-lawsuit_n_66bca33ae4b0b1dc530384cf

Get paid, Queen!

 

[Flower2dPeople]

Female is not a pronoun

 

[Osculater]

 

[Flower2dPeople]

I mean "it".

An objective pronoun acts as the object of a sentence—it receives the action of the verb. The objective pronouns are her, him, it, me, them, us, and you.

 

[Osculater]

I mean "it".

"It" is gender-neutral

 

[Flower2dPeople]

"It" is gender-neutral

Exactly. It's not a she.

 

[Osculater]

Exactly. It's not a she.

No evidence, no proof

 

[Flower2dPeople]

No evidence, no proof

That's why we're sticking with "it".

 

[Osculater]

That's why we're sticking with "it".

She is a woman so far

 

[Seano]

She is a woman so far

I mean, how? Genetically this person is not female. I feel like people are saying things they know to not really be true here. This person has a different genetic makeup than an actual "normal" biological woman. XY chromosomes mean you are not female, at best, we are talking some sort of mutation here.