Body punching

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by shs101, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    I feel whenever I'm on the forum I never see threads about punches to the body... or maybe I'm not on here as much?

    What do trainers mean by "digging" to the body? Any examples atleast? Me and a training partner of mine are trying to work on this but came here as to lack on knowledge on this topic in the gym......
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Digging means you don't stop the delivery of force at the point of impact, you push it beyond. Penetration. The object of punching the body is to actually hit organs, whenever possible.
     
  3. bunt

    bunt A Goats eye is the GOAT eye

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    I always thought punches to the head have better effect if you snap them to create the concussive motion on the skull..

    Whereas body punching, as Sinister mentioned, is about crushing the organs to cause more of a winding effect. So its less about speed and more about the follow through.
     
  4. KillerElite

    KillerElite Carlos Condit knees people in the face

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    Body shots hurt a lot more. I used the liver punch for a while.
     
  5. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    So it's a push? I don't understand. You have any fighter in mind that you would show tapes to your guys for a reference? I don't think someone ever really told me who is a true body puncher that's hurt people.
     
  6. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    That's Mike old and much higher in weight than when in his prime, taking out a younger fresher fighter with body-shots that penetrate.
     
  7. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    He looked amazing. I still don't understand the trick, though. So many coaches teach body punching different you don't know what's right and wrong.
     
  8. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    What do you not understand? I don't understand what's not to understand. Some of you seem to drastically overthink things. Penetration. You don't merely touch the body and be content to make contact, pulling back the force. You drive the punch into the body deeply, as if stabbing...or, you know DIGGING.
     
  9. Kickzilla

    Kickzilla Blue Belt

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    Isn't there an argument that one should be doing that with pretty much every punch; even to the head?

    Provided your stance, balance, and technique are on point.

    P.S- Always nice to see McCallum footage.
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Depends on the context. Throwaway punches, range-finding with a jab, soft cross to set up hard hook...vice versa...
     
  11. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    This is why I tire of and don't frequent stand up forum discussions as much any more. Too much overthinking/over-analyzing. It's helpful up to a point, to which further discussion really achieves nothing.
     
  12. roventu

    roventu Brown Belt

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    isnt that the difference between pushing punch and snapping punch?

    thanks for the tips, been reading the thread, gotta work on penetrating body shots more
     
  13. Brando

    Brando Green Belt

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    I think the whole idea of "punching through" your target can lead people into some bad habits. I've seen a lot of people defending pushing punches by saying they are just trying to "punch through the target." The theory is correct; you want to follow through on your punches, but you don't want to overdo it, and that's what many people get in the habit of doing when they overthink these cues.

    I've heard trainers equate the force transfer of a punch to a car crash. Shout out to Barry Robinson here, who provides this handy metaphor. The damage of the car crash is done on impact, but often the momentum of the crash will cause the cars to keep on sliding and grinding together. The car crashes, then "pushes" the car further, but no extra damage is done there.

    Similarly, the damage of a punch is done on impact. The "push" afterwards that people often end up doing doesn't add anything of note. Of course, the impact needs to be "deep," but that is accomplished by just trying to punch hard and having your mechanics down. I don't think you're gaining anything from lingering and actively trying to "push" anything.

    Barry also uses the cue that states "you press a button" with a body punch and then go right back to work/guard/control/whatever. I'm not going to waste time "pushing" into a guy's body with my glove when I could be using that hand for defense, control, hand play, or doubling it up. The push is just tiring and doesn't produce any additional force. It might be uncomfortable to have someone "push" into your ribs/sternum/whatever, but whatever. It's "uncomfortable" to jab a guy and then prod his face a bit, but it's not going to cause extra damage, and unless you're actively controlling with that touch you're just creating a defensive liability.

    I need to be careful here, because penetration has to happen. Pushing is the problem. One of my favorite body punches is a stabbing right uppercut if I can slip outside the jab. When I throw it, I think of violently running the guy through and then immediately retracting the shot, but I don't think "pushing" is the proper descriptor. Big, explosive difference between pushing a knife into someone and stabbing them. The penetration happens too fast to be called a push, which has more of a grinding/slow connotation to me.
     
  14. Brando

    Brando Green Belt

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    Yea, same - it feels like more and more, text is becoming an outdated medium for this kind of discussion. Unfortunately, not a lot of people have the means, confidence, or motivation to upload more video content. I would be on here all the time if it was just a bunch of cool training footage and video feedback.
     
  15. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I think there are different ways to define a "push." I'd like to specify that really, it's merely a further rotation/extension. Another inch of hip, another inch of degree of arm bend, can turn an impacting punch into a penetrating one. Floyd is notorious for this, so was Erik Morales. In the camp for Pacquiao, one of Floyd's sparring partners got dropped with Floyd's straight right to the body, later he said: "I felt like Floyd reached into my back pocket." Morales, he didn't just tap people in the gut with his body jab, he IMPALED you with it when he set some weight on it.

    For everyone needing visual reference, one of the best guys I've seen with this in-person who isn't a high-level fighter, but very skilled is Donte Strayhorn. Keep a close eye for his body-shots, not always easy because he's very fast. But if he gets you to stand still when he goes to the body he tries to stick his hand through you, and is very good at this not costing him defensive positioning. In fact he's so efficient at hurting a guy to the body that whenever my fighters spar him I make it imperative they get elbows in the way as opposed to chancing a pivot, because if they pivot and run into one of his shots, it'll be twice as bad:

     
  16. Brando

    Brando Green Belt

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    Beautiful work at the 5-minute mark.
     
  17. JayElectra

    JayElectra Paper Belt Banned

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    It's even more appreciable when they're slowed down a bit and have to labour a tad when they reach down. Beautiful work.
     
  18. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Yes, the first hook he tapped. The second he put some hip into it and tried to punch THROUGH Joseph.
     
  19. Brando

    Brando Green Belt

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    Yes, and created a beautiful angle with the straight right beforehand.

    It continues to 5:06 as well where he lifts and creates space with his elbow beautifully to get off the body work.
     
  20. Ths808IsCatchy

    Ths808IsCatchy Yellow Belt

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    this is hyperbole, of course, but it is helpful for visualization purposes

    imagine digging your fist under your opponents ribs into his softer tissue and organs...most body shots are sort of an uppercut/hook hybrid so the term "dig" is used to help people understand the angle needed to achieve the best results

    body shots are the fucking shit...they are such a great investment...they tire guys out, get them dropping their hands, and set up head shots...sometimes if you land properly you can drop someone and force them to quit

    the left hook to the liver is my favorite
     

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