Body Angle Kick with Greg Wootton

[AndyMaBobs]

For those who may not have heard of him, Greg Wootton is one of the top Muay Thai fighters in the UK. I thought I would share and see what people thought of his kicks.

Coming straight up and then turning the hip is actually quite different from how I was taught by my coach, who taught me the twist of the hips/pivot/release the leg method that most people do.

Just wondered if there any thoughts on this.

 

[Perfect form]

Nice video. thx!

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Nice video. thx!

No problem

 

[j123]

Interesting, I'll give it a try next time I'm in the gym

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Interesting, I'll give it a try next time I'm in the gym

Cool, let me know how it goes!

This guy is a pretty good fighter, I don't think he's quite as well known as Liam Harrison and Jordan Watson as far as UK fights go, but he does hold a win over Petbonchuu, although he more recently lost to Pakorn. There were talks of a Saenchai fight but I think they fell through.

The kick is strange to me in that it kind of looks the same as any other muay thai kick despite the way its being executed clearly being different.

 

[j123]

Cool, let me know how it goes!

This guy is a pretty good fighter, I don't think he's quite as well known as Liam Harrison and Jordan Watson as far as UK fights go, but he does hold a win over Petbonchuu, although he more recently lost to Pakorn. There were talks of a Saenchai fight but I think they fell through.

The kick is strange to me in that it kind of looks the same as any other muay thai kick despite the way its being executed clearly being different.

Yeah when he first mentioned going up, I thought it would be an interesting way to feint a teep and go with the regular kick, but near the end of the video, the execution looked the same.

 

[RexChapmanFan]

Yeah when he first mentioned going up, I thought it would be an interesting way to feint a teep and go with the regular kick, but near the end of the video, the execution looked the same.

I feel like I've seen this kick taught 20 different ways, but they all end up looking the same. It's confusing.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I feel like I've seen this kick taught 20 different ways, but they all end up looking the same. It's confusing.

I completely get what you mean. The reason for this is probably something massively simple that's just soaring over our heads, I'm sure.

 

[Centaur]

When I trained at Duke Roufus' gym this is how he taught it. Anthony Pettis has a good vid out there on this kick and breaks down what and why. He talks about how it's hurts less if they check it and can make it more versatile as far as picking your target (changing it up last minute).

This is also how most of the Thais I have trained with do it as well.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

When I trained at Duke Roufus' gym this is how he taught it. Anthony Pettis has a good vid out there on this kick and breaks down what and why. He talks about how it's hurts less if they check it and can make it more versatile as far as picking your target (changing it up last minute).

This is also how most of the Thais I have trained with do it as well.

So with that in mind, what with how the kicks seem to look the same. What would you say the real difference is between the two techniques? To me it looks like its just making the arc in the kick less prominent.

That being said when I see Yodsanklai kick, who IMO has the best pure thai kicking technique, even he doesn't seem to have a huge wide arc to his kick.

 

[Centaur]

So with that in mind, what with how the kicks seem to look the same. What would you say the real difference is between the two techniques? To me it looks like its just making the arc in the kick less prominent.

That being said when I see Yodsanklai kick, who IMO has the best pure thai kicking technique, even he doesn't seem to have a huge wide arc to his kick.

Ya, that's pretty much how I see it too. I really don't think the big arc is necessary. Get the leg up, close to your target, and turn the hips over/pivot before contact. Seems the quickest, safest way to go.

But then ya get Bas Rutten who says he likes to make the arc more prominent (or wide) so he doesn't hit elbows. So ya.....

 

[Azam]

So with that in mind, what with how the kicks seem to look the same. What would you say the real difference is between the two techniques? To me it looks like its just making the arc in the kick less prominent.

That being said when I see Yodsanklai kick, who IMO has the best pure thai kicking technique, even he doesn't seem to have a huge wide arc to his kick.

Greg Wootton is legit as it comes. I don't think he's fighting anymore though - not sure.

Tbh - even in that footage he doesn't throw it the same all the time. Even in the fight footage all the kicks look a bit different - it's a very variable kick. It's a bit funny to see how everyone varies that angular kick. In karate - I throw that same kick but less hip turn-over & more of an arc (it's more dependent on flexibility & also I lean back slightly to ease the pressure off) - for me doing it this way might not be as powerful but it is very hard to telegraph and lands flush a lot more than any other way I've tried.

As for Yod - he varies his arc all the time. Sometimes he has a wide arc and sometimes not so much - the consistent thing though with his kicks is the hip turn over. Sometimes he's nearly sideways on - that's how much he uses the hip:

 

[RexChapmanFan]

Ya, that's pretty much how I see it too. I really don't think the big arc is necessary. Get the leg up, close to your target, and turn the hips over/pivot before contact. Seems the quickest, safest way to go.

But then ya get Bas Rutten who says he likes to make the arc more prominent (or wide) so he doesn't hit elbows. So ya.....

When you guys talk about "arc" what do you mean exactly?

 

[Centaur]

When you guys talk about "arc" what do you mean exactly?

If the kick starts very close to the target, comes straight up (more or less) and turns in at the end, that would be a shallow arc. If it starts from further away, comes up and around from more of distance that would create a deeper arc.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Greg Wootton is legit as it comes. I don't think he's fighting anymore though - not sure.

Tbh - even in that footage he doesn't throw it the same all the time. Even in the fight footage all the kicks look a bit different - it's a very variable kick. It's a bit funny to see how everyone varies that angular kick. In karate - I throw that same kick but less hip turn-over & more of an arc (it's more dependent on flexibility & also I lean back slightly to ease the pressure off) - for me doing it this way might not be as powerful but it is very hard to telegraph and lands flush a lot more than any other way I've tried.

As for Yod - he varies his arc all the time. Sometimes he has a wide arc and sometimes not so much - the consistent thing though with his kicks is the hip turn over. Sometimes he's nearly sideways on - that's how much he uses the hip:

He fought recently, not in the last few months or so mind you, but I haven't heard anything about a retirement though.


Also, I can watch Yodsanklai kick all day, that guys turn over is brilliant. Do you think the width of the arc is a conscious thing as opposed to just how the kick comes out sometimes?

 

[Azam]

When you guys talk about "arc" what do you mean exactly?

Think of it in terms of an arc of a circle. It's the trajectory of your legs/hips/knee take before impact is made. The shorter your arc the more speed you have - the longer your arc the more force you generate.

When you throw roundhouse kicks you're knee/hip/leg will follow a trajectory similar to that of an arc in a circle. Depending on how you throw you're kick - your trajectory or arc can be longer/wider or it can be narrower/shorter.

For example your arc would be different if you throw a round house with your leg coming up straight first like a front kick almost - before turning your hips --- as opposed to turning out your knee/leg to the side and then swinging into a roundhouse kick. You get two different arcs & lengths of trajectory - one is much quicker than the other while the other is much more forceful.

The fundamental differences between Tkd, MT & Karate kicks for example is in their arcs/hip turn over - fundamentally if you ignore actually technique. When you account for technique you get the differences in chambering & the snap as opposed to more of a solid mass (less snap). All things have their places.

 

[Azam]

He fought recently, not in the last few months or so mind you, but I haven't heard anything about a retirement though.

Also, I can watch Yodsanklai kick all day, that guys turn over is brilliant. Do you think the width of the arc is a conscious thing as opposed to just how the kick comes out sometimes?

Maybe I recall someone retiring from competition - pretty sure it may have been Wootton from KO. I could be wrong though - maybe I'm getting confused with someone else.

Yodsanklai kicks are hypnotic to watch I agree - I try to throw my kicks like him and I'm a karateka - but I can appreciate a great kicker when I see one.


I think the width of the arc is probably dependent upon where you are relative to your opponent & also what you intend to do. So it comes naturally & varies according to what you want to do. It isn't a conscious thing but more of a instinctual thing obviously guided by however you've been instructed.

For example when I throw a cross/straight - I will almost always widen my kicking arc because it helps disguise the kick much better as opposed to not doing it - the cross helps hide it & also the level of the kick (whether it's going to body or head) as the kicks starts from an area that the cross/straight partially hides. Sometimes when I want to get my kick in quicker or I'm closer or if I'm at a position/angle where using a wider arc is to obvious/slow - I will opt for a shorter arc. This all comes from judgement - and you can get it wrong - I mean I do but it's a learning process.

I think it also depends greatly on experience - guys like Yod can get away with using wider arcs & hip turn over the way he does because his timing is on another level. Kicks that have arcs/hip turnovers like his are a lot slower - so you have to compensate by timing them very well. His kicks are slower compared to counterparts but the reason that isn't an issue is timing.

 

[MandirigmaFit]

I was taught this way in Thailand, like a lot of you have been taught, it seems.

My trainers preferred the leg to travel straight up with the knee bent, so you can mask it as a knee or a kick. Also straight up so that you cannot tell where it will land: body, their guard, or head.

Sick video.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Maybe I recall someone retiring from competition - pretty sure it may have been Wootton from KO. I could be wrong though - maybe I'm getting confused with someone else.

Yodsanklai kicks are hypnotic to watch I agree - I try to throw my kicks like him and I'm a karateka - but I can appreciate a great kicker when I see one.


I think the width of the arc is probably dependent upon where you are relative to your opponent & also what you intend to do. So it comes naturally & varies according to what you want to do. It isn't a conscious thing but more of a instinctual thing obviously guided by however you've been instructed.

For example when I throw a cross/straight - I will almost always widen my kicking arc because it helps disguise the kick much better as opposed to not doing it - the cross helps hide it & also the level of the kick (whether it's going to body or head) as the kicks starts from an area that the cross/straight partially hides. Sometimes when I want to get my kick in quicker or I'm closer or if I'm at a position/angle where using a wider arc is to obvious/slow - I will opt for a shorter arc. This all comes from judgement - and you can get it wrong - I mean I do but it's a learning process.

I think it also depends greatly on experience - guys like Yod can get away with using wider arcs & hip turn over the way he does because his timing is on another level. Kicks that have arcs/hip turnovers like his are a lot slower - so you have to compensate by timing them very well. His kicks are slower compared to counterparts but the reason that isn't an issue is timing.

I get what you mean. I would say my kicks are pretty slow, because I turn my kicks all the way over. So I have to compensate by throwing them when I think my opponent is in a bad position. In spite of three years of Muay Thai though I wouldn't say I've ever developed great kicking skills

 

[Fire of Youth]

That style of body kick is about slipping your kicking leg up inside their elbow before turning the hip over for power. You don't want to launch your kick as hard as you can and then get your ankle elbow spiked.