BJJ Made Easy...... Review, and Lloyd Irvin Response....

[DarceBrabo]

Guys,

It was suggested that I go ahead and make a separate thread for my review, and response to Lloyd Irvin's email, so please bare with me for making a thread that would seem to be a duplicate. I'm just making it separate so you dont have to sift through pages and pages in order to figure out and see the review, Lloyd Irvin's response to the review, and my response to Lloyd Irvin.

 

[DarceBrabo]

Guys,

Sorry for the late review, i've been battling the stomach flu, and this is the first chance I've gotten to be able to sit up without fluid having to exit my body . With that being said, lets get started.

The set is broken down into 6 discs:

Disc 1: Escapes from Bottom
Disc 2: Countering the Guard
Disc 3: The Guard
Disc 4: Passing the Guard & Back Game
Disc 5: Top Game
Disc 6: Standing Game

Disc 1 was decent at best. Its a basic overview of the standard escapes we all learn from Day 1, and all of which can be easily found freely on Youtube. There were no earth shattering details present that will drastically up your escape game (If you guys want a DVD set for that, just ask, and I can give you insight on a set that has that later). Disc 1 starts out talking about Shrimping (and I can see that Fowler, nor any of Irvin's guys were present during Rickson's seminar, lol), then begins with an example of escaping side control. It was ok, but the focus was on shrimping, not escaping side control, so alot of detail wasnt conveyed to the audience as far as how to properly escape side control. Next we moved on to escaping mount. This was also fairly decent, went over the usual suspects and Mike covered them in fairly sufficient detail. Ironically the video of Rhadi's Half Guard sweep was on this DVD, and *NOT* the Guard DVD. I think it should've been there instead of here.

From there we move on to a slew of Headlock escapes. Now if anyone has the Gracie Combatives set, i'd suggest watching that for Headlock escapes from the bottom of Side Control, because they are covered in much more detail, with much more depth. The next portion covers Knee on Belly escapes. The 1st 2 being shrimping away to escape (I've seen these before, and are VERY tough to do on anyone above Blue Belt level), and the last 2 being fairly nice (If you have his NoGi Made Easy set, then you've seen these before).

Next he shows countering a guard pass, which in all honesty was just getting the underhook, going to your knee's, and doing the knee tap takedown. Nothing new there. Next was escaping the back. Now this was the spot that I figured would shine, considering that Lloyd focus alot on the back position. Surprisingly this portion wasnt very good either. Both escapes were the typical bridge and escape your hips, then either come to your knee's, or replace Half Guard.

Finally we have 3 submission escapes, Armlock, Guillotine, and Guillotine when inside their guard. Same song here, nothing new, same stuff, no new details.

All in all if I could give this disc a rating of 1 to 5, I would give it a 2.5. It could've gotten a 3, but not enough time was spent focusing on the details, and the do's and dont's from these positions, which is VERY important in the beginning. If you want a set that focuses entirely on these, with better detail (and technique), check out Michael Jen's Ultimate Pin Escapes. That set has been a staple to my escaping dominant position game.

Quite frankly, this disc pretty much has nothing new, and you could get everything off of this disc, for free at Youtube.

 

[DarceBrabo]

Now Disc 2 is kind of funky, because although the title of this disc is "Countering the Guard" its broken down into 2 categories:

Escapes from the Top
and
Standing Self Defense

Here again, we see something on a disc that shouldnt be. I would've put the standing self defense portion on the standing game DVD, as it would hold relevance being there, instead of on Disc 2. Now Disc 2, Escapes from the top has 8 techniques:

Armbar Defense
Kimura Counter
Kimura Counter 2
Omoplata Counter
Sit-in Omoplata Counter (The one from the website)
Triangle Counter
Triangle Counter #2
Cross Choke Counters

Out of all the techniques listed above, the 2 I really liked were Kimura Counter 1 (which was countering the Kimura from Half Guard with your own Kimura, and the Omoplata Sit-in Counter, which goes well with an escape that I already use). Aside from those, the remainder of the escapes are the same ones we all learn on day 1, with yet again, no extra details. Difference being is that its Mike Fowler teaching you, and not your instructor.

The Standing Self Defense was broken down into the following:

Backwards Breakfall
Sideways Breakfall
FOrward Rolling Breakfall
Phase 1-2-3 (Technical Stand up/Technical Lift)
Bearhug Escape
Bearhug Escape #2
Front Bearhug Escape
Overhead Strike

This disc is pretty self explanatory. Again, check out Gracie Combatives if you want a better resource for this.

 

[DarceBrabo]

This disc is broken down into the following techniques:

Granby Roll
Four Corners Drill (The same open guard drill we all do at warm ups)
Open Guard Drill (another warm up drill)
Another Open Guard Drill (another warm up drill)
Control Points
Scissor Sweep
Upa Sweep
ANkle Grab Sweep
Push Through Triangle
Feet on hips Triangle
Triangle Ring (When you have the triangle position, and the guy hugs your hips)
Cross Choke
Ezekiel Choke
Guillotine Choke
Kimura Shoulder Lock
Wrist Lock (yes, Wrist Lock)
Straight Armbar
Armbar Variation
Shoulder Wrap Armbar
Omoplata

Disc 3 keeps with the current trend of the DVD set of being nothing new, but I did like the open guard drilling portion. I felt this set could've focused alot more on Guard retention, with alot less emphasis on so many techniques. The open guard drills were good, and the "Control Points" section was very good. Mike basically discussed that you need to have a specific amount of grips simultaneously to have an effective open guard. This was really good, insightful material. Everything else (especially the Triangle material) was covered in other sets with better detail.

 

[DarceBrabo]

Now this was the disc that I had the most interest in. Those of you here that know me know that Top Game (Primarily the Back) is my FAVORITE, so I was really looking forward to get some insight into how Lloyd prepares his guys to pass the Guard, and attack the back. I figured this disc was going to be JT Torres 101. At any rate, here is how it was broken down:

Passing the Guard:

Opening the Closed Guard
Knee-In Guard Break
Knee Cut
Over Under Pass (Barra Pass)
Double Under Pass
Standing Guard break and Pass
Variation
Lockdown and Guard Pass (This is not the Half Guard Lockdown)
Lockdown and Guard Pass #2
Lockdown and Guard Pass #3
4 Ankle Lock grips

Now this disc so far was my favorite, but most disappointing. All of the guard passes were taught with sufficient detail, but I felt using the label "Lockdown and Guard Pass" was a bit misleading in the initial advertisement, because it led people to believe that Lloyd was giving out 3 different Lockdown passes, and he wasnt giving out even 1. Then, the passes themselves werent at all any of the passes that JT uses aside from the standing Knee cut. But no complaints from me here, this was a good segment.

Next we have:

Taking the Back

Taking the Back
Two control grips (Harness, and Double Lapel Control)
Lapel Choke
RNC
Safety Tip (dont cross your feet)

This was THE MOST disappointing segment of the entire set. A total of 12 minutes of the ENTIRE DVD set was devoted to taking the back. Mike opened with attacking, and taking the back from when your opponent is turtled. Now my issue here, is the same issue that I have with ALOT of sets (Not all, some sets do cover what i'm about to discuss), and that issue is either

A) Forcing your opponent to Turtle
B) Getting your opponent to turn into you
C) Forcing your opponent to turn away from you

The above circumstances are all what cause the Turtle situation to happen. Its my belief that instead of just automatically jumping to teaching how to attack the Turtle, you should at least teach people how to get the position established, and how to counteract some of the common defenses from the guy thats turtled. Its the same as teaching a DVD on Spider Guard, and instead of giving several options on how to establish it, you just start straight out in the Spider Guard, skip the basic contingencies, and then hit off with some advanced techniques. Now, under the circumstances that the DVD was advertised as being advanced, then that'd be totally fine, but not as something defined as "basic".

The control grips were given a decent amount of detail, even though I felt it lacking just slightly in certain areas, and I felt that the submission selection was a bit off. If this was a NoGi set, then i'd leave the RNC present. But this being a Gi set, I think that what should've been here would be:

Double Lapel Choke
Bow and Arrow Choke
Wing Choke
Ezekiel Choke

Those are all really fundamental, highly effective Gi chokes that when done properly, are very hard to defend. Lastly, the safety tip didnt really need much detail, just dont cross your feet.

 

[DarceBrabo]

Disc 5 was another one of the better overall discs. Its broken down into 2 sections covering the following:

Top Game -

Four Main Control Points
Kimura Transitions
Finer Details of the Paintbrush
Brabo Choke
Brabo Variations
Headlock Attacks (Seriously?)
Properly attaining Mount
Knee Slide Mount take
Paintbrush
The "Fat boy" Mount (Just Sidemount)
Triple Attack from Mount

Knee on Belly -

Attaining Knee on Belly
Baseball Bat Choke
Cross Choke
Armbar
Opposite Side Armbar

Aside from the names, these are all moves that we all already know. I liked the Brabo portion, the Kimura detail portion, and the Triple Attack from Mount. Even though these were all moves that I already knew, there was some new light shed on them that I hadnt already considered.. The transitions were all smooth, although I was taught the knee slide to mount attack differently (and I still prefer it over the version that Fowler took).

The knee on belly portion of the disc was good, although I didnt particularly like the Baseball choke, because I was taught that in order to be able to properly get the choke, without the bottom guy defending, then you need to slide your knee that was once on his belly, over his near side elbow before applying teh choke. By doing so, you prevent several defenses from the bottom guy. Mike doesnt do that, he just hopes over the head and goes. Now this may work for Mike from time to time, but I still prefer the way I was taught before.

 

[DarceBrabo]

Now Disc 6 is the disc that concludes the set. Its broken down into the following:

1-2-3 Gripping system (Same as taught on Fowlers seminar DVD)
Sprawl
Pummeling
Wrist Grip Escapes
Five set ups for the Shot
Double Leg takedown
Finishing a Single Leg (sweep single to run the pipe style finish)
Another Finish (Leg lift finish)
Standing Guillotine
Guillotine Escape #1
Guillotine Escape #2
Guillotine Escape #3
Wrestling Switch

This disc was decent, no complaints from me here too much. I was surprised to see Fowler cover the Sweep Single Leg (which is my favorite version, its eff'in awesome). The Guillotine escapes were all fairly standard, with the 1-2-3 Gripping being probably the best technical detail on this disc.

 

[DarceBrabo]

All in all, on a scale of 1 to 5, i'd give this set an overall grading of a 3. Its an average set, far from perfect, but far from the worst. I definitely feel that there were alot of techniques that were rushed through, and a good portion of techniques werent even covered, but judging from the material present, i'd say that its decent. I wanted to give it a 2.5, but here and there Fowler had some moments where he really made some things simple enough for anyone to do, and that was something that i liked.

Since i know there are some Lloyd Irvin guys who will be reading this (and quite possibly calling me a hater), i'd like to take this time out to say that I have nothing against Lloyd, but by putting yourself in the market of DVDs, you put yourself in the market of DVD reviews. I honestly felt the focus of the DVDs could've been better spent on other things, and the organization of the DVDs didnt always fit, which seemed to yield that the project was rushed through at certain points, I.E. The Back Game portion taking 12 minutes?!?

Certain techniques were only given literally like 10 seconds of focus (The Wrestlers switch being one of them), and some of them lacked critical details that makes the move work. I think that by providing the details, the depth, and the focus, it would bring Lloyd's customer base up alot higher, without the need to use the "It seems to good to be true" advertising that he uses. At the end of the day, good product is good product. Take Ryan Hall's Triangle set for example. That was a good product, that had literally NO advertising behind it. It was so good that it sold itself, and people didnt even want to pirate it, because it was THAT good.

Any and all of Lloyd's product can fit this criteria, he'd just have to actually sell the magic that those advertisements preach.

 

[DarceBrabo]

So, got an email today by a Mr. Lloyd Irvin, and I figured i'd post it here for all to see:

Would you go to an eye doctor for an ucler?

Would you go to a dentist for a torn ACL?

Would you let a White Belt teach you BJJ?

Would you want to learn Throws from a butt flopper?

I hope your answer to all of these questions are HECK NO!!!!!!

You see you have to be very careful who you take advice from
and who you listen to.

I just got an email today from a guy showing me
a review someone did on my BJJ Made Easy
program.

The review was AVERAGE!

BJJ Made Easy 'Is Not Average' for the person
that it was created for.

Here's proof. Last weekend at the 2010
Pan Ams I had two of my blue belts make
it to the finals of the blue belt open division.

One blue belt win GOLD, I had a female
win Gold in her division and the Open
female blue belt division. One of my
guys that made it to the finals of the
open took Bronze in his division.

Now I'm not saying this to brag but I'm
saying it to make a point. Just these
3 students alone took home 4 Golds
and a Bronze at the 2010 Pan Ams.

These 3 students 'ALL' are being taught
exactly what's in "BJJ Made Easy", actually
if you've seen my "Mouse Trap Kimura"
video on youtube(Almost 70,000 people
have seen it so far) the guy I'm demonstrating
on is a student named DJ.

**************************************** **
If You Haven't Seen The Video
Go To Youtube And Search For
'BJJ Made Easy'
**************************************** **

DJ submitted "SEVEN" people at the 2010
Pan Ams using my other Kimura series that
we show in BJJ Made Easy.

Everything in BJJ Made Easy 'works', nothing
is concepts,it's what my guys do.

If you look at the program, then watch Mike Fowler
compete from blue through black belt. With the
exception of the unstoppable sweep, the xande
sweep and a few other things, Mike's entire
game is based off what he learned in hs first
18 months of training. This is what is laid
out in BJJ Made Easy.

I could write a book and do case study after
case study of how what's taught in BJJ Made
Easy(All Of It) works. Maybe one day when
I have some extra time, I may put together
a video of all of the techniques in the course
being done in real competition.

But back to my point.

Before you read to much into a review, please
look at the reviewer and their qualifications
to be listened to as a reviewer?

My results don't lie and results are the only
thing that matters in this game PERIOD

In my situation BJJ Made Easy was created
for the beginner to give them a sound foundation
in BJJ Basics. I said my course isn't for anyone with
more than 18-24 months of experience.

Now granted, we can nit pick for what I didn't
put in the course, but that can be done with
any dvd set. My entire beginner curriculum
in my school is based off of BJJ Made Easy.

It's like if I was selling 24 carat Gold and someone
wanted to review my Gold. How do you review
GOLD? Are you going to say it's not 24 carat?
Are you going to say it's not real Gold?

AH HA! Maybe they don't believe that my
BJJ Made Easy program is what I actually
teach. But for years I've been sending out
videos of my guys doing the stuff that I show.

Whatever the reason the fact is that my
BJJ Made Easy program is exactly what
I say it is and I have results to back it up.

One of my guys with under a year experience
won the 2009 Blue Belt World Championships
and in each and every match he used solely
the techniques in BJJ Made Easy.

So just for the record I truly appreciate
my loyal subscribers sending me the
reviews but honestly I could care less.

They can take their reviews throw them
out of the window for all I care!

Lloyd Irvin aka The Grappling Renegade
Forever The King Of Leglocks

PS. If you have less than 24 months experience
in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu make sure you check out

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Made Easy with Lloyd Irvin, Mike Fowler and JT

PPS. Maybe the word IDIOT was a little
harsh, but if you have a problem with your
eyes and you go to a dentist to get advice
about your eye sight then you my friend
are an IDIOT.

But I know that you would never do that

 

[DarceBrabo]

Lloyd,

After reading your email, I must say I was taken aback. Now i'm no stranger to a verbal joust, but I really thought that a person of your caliber would be open to constructive criticism, especially with you being in the market that your in. The review that I wrote was nothing personal against you, or any of the people that are training in your organization, however what confuses me is why does a review of a product that was released by you to the masses have to be subject to scrutiny and verbal attack because you didnt like what you read? Dont you think that I would have LOVED for you to provide that product that you wrote about in your ad? Your ad was the sole reason that I bought the DVD set.

At any rate, your email has made me decide to take a much more thorough look at the product that you sell/sold.

1st up, lets examine the price of your overall product: $150. Thats the price that I paid when I ordered your set (which is now $200 WITHOUT the bonuses, and $240 WITH the bonuses). So basically if you got in early, you paid the same price as you would pay for a WMA product, but if you got in late, you pay $50, to $100 dollars more than the leading competitor in BJJ DVD Production. How can you justify this? The people that he produces DVD's with are Black Belts, and in most cases Black Belt champions, while the only black belt you've filmed anything with was Mike Fowler.

Here is the roster of the people that WMA has produced sets with:

1. Roberto Cyborg (ADCC Champ) 2. Robson Moura (7 time BJJ Champ)
3. Demian Maia (ADCC Champ, and awesome black belt) 4. Robert Drysdale (ADCC Champ)
5. Marcelo Garcia (Multiple ADCC, Pan Am, and Mundial Champ) 6. Saulo Ribeiro (Multiple time Mundial Champ)
7. Mario Sperry (Mundial Champ)

And the list goes on

Here is the roster of people that you've produced sets with:

Mike Fowler (Great black belt competitor)
JT Torres (Awesome competitor, but was awesome even before going to Team Lloyd Irvin)
Wilson Reis (Awesome competitor)
Ryan Hall

Now the sets that you filmed with JT, were all during his brown belt days, NOTHING from when he was a black belt. However, what I would like to do is focus on the set that you produced with Ryan Hall

You made the set with 6+ DVDs, and a Training manual that basically transcribed the material that was on the DVDs. You charged your usual price which was like $150+, and everyone bought it based on your method of advertising. Eventually due to a falling out, that set was taken off of the market, and was no longer available to the public. Then, not to far along after, Ryan releases another set, which was 3 DVDs instead of 6, and was far superior to the one produced by you, and was also cheaper.

So I guess the question is, how do you justify the prices that you charge, when you've only recently introduced a second black belt to the DVD production regime (Wilson Reis)???? People that are charging less than you put out better material, with a better roster, without the crazy ads.

 

[DarceBrabo]

Lloyd,

Next I'd like to examine the overall packaging of your product. Now keeping with the momentum that I used in my first response, I compared you to the company WMA (World Martial Arts), so i'll keep with that motif, throughout the remainder of this response.

Packaging

Your product comes in a white DVD envelope, no professional casing what so ever. Now generally in most cases this can easily be overlooked provided the material that is on the DVDs is absolutely astounding, but as we've seen earlier, the material isnt, and thats an ongoing trend with a good majority of your DVDs.

Media used

Now to the untrained eye, the DVDs you release would seem to be of a professional quality. However, its quite the contrary. There is ink printed on the cover of the DVDs (fairly decent photoshopping, i'll give you that), but why do you use cheap DVD-R media, where all of your leading competitors actually use REAL DVD media (for anyone that doesnt know how to check, look on the back of a DVD-R, and you'll see the purple back, where as real DVD video has the silver back).

Film environment

Lastly, lets examine where these DVDs are being filmed, and the actual audio. The DVDs appear to be filmed in a sectioned off area of your academy. Now there would be no issue with this, if the lighting, and audio of your DVDs would compensate for your lack of an actual filming studio. But again, it doesnt.

Now these are all things that all of your leading competitors have in common, they have a professionaly packaged product, printed and filmed on professional media, done in a professional studio. Those producers took the time out to make the product that they sell (Again, their product is cheaper than yours) professional to anyone with a brain, and eyes that could see.

So my question here is why do you cut corners and provide lack luster professionalism when it comes to the production quality of your material? Dont you think that if you invested a little bit more in your product, that it wouldnt be under the scrutiny of "idiots" like me with a brain that could see when you were being cheap?

 

[DarceBrabo]

Lloyd,

This will conclude my rant, so please bare with me. The last thing I'd like to cover is the actual content of the discs. The DVD set contains the following discs:

BJJ Made Easy DVD Set

Disc 1 - Escapes from Bottom

Now since you took the time out to read my review, I imagine that you read that I suggested sets that actually covered the very same techniques are you set, but better, with far more detail.

How could you be upset with something like this? What I said was opinionated, but it was an opinion based on fact, because I compared your product, to products that are already on the market.

Disc 2 - Countering the Guard

Now this disc was when you meshed material together that had absolutely nothing to do with each other (Standing self defense, with Bottom Guard defense). Why you did this was beyond me, but it made little sense when you could've placed them on the top game disc, and attained a sort of continuity of material.

Why get mad at a suggestion that was made that would've made YOUR product better???

Disc 3 - Guard Game

Its basically the same thing here as before. You gave material with no new light of detail. Everything you showed here could've been attained FREELY at YouTube - Broadcast Yourself., with more detail, and more focus. If you dont believe me, go on Youtube and see for yourself, the proof is in the pudding.

Lloyd, are you familiar with the term overlap? Now I know that when producing DVD sets on a topic that everyone for the most part is familiar with, your going to have *SOME* overlap, but the devil is in the details. Take Saulo Ribeiro's sets for example. He does nothing but shed light on what people would call "basic" moves, and gives details about those moves that give people the "light bulb" moment. Your set didnt do that.

Disc 4 - Guard Passing and Back Game

Now this was one of the discs that I actually liked. The passes taught here were passes that I usually see TLI guys do in competition. This was actually one of my favorite discs in the set, but was also a HUGE let down. Primarily because you only spent 12 minutes covering back material. 12 minutes covering the back?!? This is what was provided in that portion of the DVD

* Two control grips (Harness, and Double Lapel Control)
* Lapel Choke
* RNC
* Safety Tip (dont cross your feet)

Is that seriously the ONLY thing you teach white and blue belts about the back??? No Bow & Arrow choke? No Clock Choke? No Reverse Bow & Arrow Choke? No Body Triangle? These are things that you have said in the past to be things that you teach your beginners, but none of them were present on the set. However what was present was the RNC choke, in the Gi, which as ANYONE here who has been doing BJJ for more than a year would know is hard to do due to the friction that the Gi provides. I'm not saying its impossible to hit, i'm just saying its hard, ESPECIALLY when you have far better options available such as the Lapel to Bow & Arrow Choke transition.

Disc 5 - Standing Game

You opened this set up with your 1-2-3 grip system, but in no way expounded, or built on it. You gave a technique, then just jumped all over the place instead of keeping the trend of using a systematic approach to grappling from the feet. But again, I said this was actually a disc that I liked because of the other material provided.

Disc 6 - Top Game

Another disc that got a compliment from me. However, yet again, there was an absence of the Bread Cutter Choke, which is something that you've said is something you show your beginners. Now if this occurrence only happened once in the set, then it would've been something to easily look over, but it didnt happen only once, it happened multiple times, which is why I said that it seemed like you rushed through the set, instead of REALLY trying to provide the public with a truly astounding product.

 

[DarceBrabo]

Lloyd,

So in conclusion of everything, you have provided us with a product that wasnt packaged in a professional matter, wasnt produced in a professional matter, and the material was mostly made up of things that were either:

A) Already covered (and in far better detail) in other DVDs

or

B) Freely provided by Youtube

With that product, you've charged more than the leading provider in BJJ DVD instruction (WMA), and everything that your products lack, their products have.

What you have done after that, is gotten upset, when a person who spent HIS money, which could've been spent on anything else, on a DVD set released by you (which we have seen is FAR overpriced), and told the public about it. I made no serious knock on your product, just gave you positive criticism, hoping that you would fill the gaps in your DVD production gameplan.

Why do you feel that people who spend their hard earned money on YOUR product arent entitled to an opinion? So because I openly said something that EVERYONE who I know that bought your set was already thinking, it makes me an idiot??? Yea Lloyd, real professional (as if you were professional to begin with). So now the public see's what happens when someone invests in your product, and they dont like it.

Hopefully you'll take some of the things i've said to heart, and change your product, and make it worth the price you charge. Hopefully before putting material out, you'll actually check to see whats out there so you can avoid overlap.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

Damn...

That is all.

 

[Ergo]

Holy crap darce, that's quite a response.

Your points about cheaper sets from more accomplished grapplers is on point, I agree 100%. The detail problems are pretty key as well, the reason I purchase a DVD isn't to get a quick overview of moves I can vaguely remember or already use, its to get the details back I may have forgotten or may have never been shown in the first place.

Also kind of amusing that he targeted your review specifically, this guy must not have much going on to be reading a review on sherdog.net.

 

[xMikeyX]

Has LI addressed other reviews of his product?

As a consumer I am grateful to have reviews done on products I am considering for purchase.

"Here's proof. Last weekend at the 2010
Pan Ams I had two of my blue belts make
it to the finals of the blue belt open division.

One blue belt win GOLD, I had a female
win Gold in her division and the Open
female blue belt division. One of my
guys that made it to the finals of the
open took Bronze in his division.

Now I'm not saying this to brag but I'm
saying it to make a point. Just these
3 students alone took home 4 Golds
and a Bronze at the 2010 Pan Ams."

This doesn't add up...

 

[FLoWitheGo**]

Here we go

 

[xMikeyX]

Would you expect a product(non-commodity) that is out on the market to go up or down in value over time?

Why does LI's product go up in value the longer it is out instead of down?

"You see you have to be very careful who you take advice from
and who you listen to. "

 

[delt16]

ttt

 

[DarceBrabo]

Would you expect a product(non-commodity) that is out on the market to go up or down in value over time?

Why does LI's product go up in value the longer it is out instead of down?

"You see you have to be very careful who you take advice from
and who you listen to. "

You know, this is actually a VERY VERY good question. Hopefully this entire thread makes it to Lloyd Irvin's eyes, so he can see that:

A) I'm not the only one who wasnt satisfied with his set

and

B) Why does his products go UP in value over time, especially considering the overall production value is so low compared to other production on the market (that is cheaper as well BTW).