Bisping/Silva result = Shear volume of strikes VS amount of significant damage per strike

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Thuckey, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. Thuckey

    Thuckey I swear to drunk.. I'm not God. Platinum Member

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    EDIT:

    Since many people here did not read yet stupidly replied anyways let me give a short summary of what I am even posting about. NO. This is NOT an excuse thread for Silva's loss. In fact it is the opposite, I am actually CRITIZING him but doing so in a well thought out analysis rather than just posting shitty one-liners like some knuckleheads we have a pleasure of sharing this forum with.

    It is a thread about the rules of mma and how fighters should implement their strategies to play and win by those rules, bascally. If you have nothing of value to contribute to this thread please refrain from posting useless, irrelavant garbage such as "BISPING WIN WTF U TALKIN BOUT" etc. because that's not even close to what I am talking about.



    Most people I think would agree that, although Bisping unleashed many more strikes than Silva, that Silva's were of a much more powerful variety. And in the rules of mma, this is what ultimately led to the W for Bisping because while he fought consistently and never gave up, Silva only fought here and there and came short of the finish he needed to rely upon to win. Let's look at this in a theoretical sense, and say that each strike has a certain number of "units" that represent damage:


    Fighter A lands 10 strikes against Fighter B each with a power of say, 10 units. So Fighter B takes 100 units of damage.

    Fighter B lands 2 strikes against Fighter A each with a power of 60 units. So Fighter A takes 120 units of damage.

    Normally one would say that Fighter B would have the edge here, he has inflicted 20 more "units" of damage upon Fighter A than he upon him. However, in the unified rules of mma the round would be given to Fighter A, since he struck 10 times as opposed to B striking only 2.

    Since these "units" of damage are theoretical and impossible to measure while scoring an mma fight, you will almost always see the more aggressive guy win even if he has less power. Significant strikes are taken into account by the judges, and sometimes it is more obvious that some strikes inflict much more damage than others, but when the fighters remain standing the whole time and batter each other back and forth this is very difficult to measure. Sometimes damage is more easily evident but the judges are usually in favour of shear volume of strikes. Just look at how Bisping dropped in round 3. Just look at his face in the later rounds as well. This does not matter though because like I said, these "units" do not exist and it is up to the fighter to adapt and play within the rules in order to win rounds via points.

    The one up side to having more powerful strikes rather than having more numerous strikes is that many times you can KO an opponent and finish the fight outside the realm of the judges. Anderson Silva is known for getting many wins this way and quite frankly is terrible and getting wins the other way, it is just not his style. For this fight that was his fatal error, as Bisping has a chin of stone and a heart of gold and continued to fight on even after feeling the utmost wrath of Silva's deadly strikes. All the while, he kept pushing the pace, moving forward, being aggressive, and although most of his offense was not nearly enough to get a brutal finish in the style of Silva, it was more than enough to win those points and secure the W.

    If Silva wishes to continue his career and get some more wins, he's going to have to face the fact that he has slowed down some and he cannot violently knock anybody out as often as he has before. Yes, he did in fact KO Bisping in round 3 under strange circumstances but ultimately he did NOT finish the fight - which fighting in this way is is only chance of getting a W. This is not news. Any Silva fight that went the distance was always disappointment. Because he is always going for that finish. When he does not get it, his fights look very odd, tentative and look quite frankly half assed.

    In conclusion I believe that although judges will usually score a round for the guy that has struck his opponent more times than his opponent has struck him -regardless of how many "units" of damage these strikes consist of - I think that a balance of the two may be what ultimately can give somebody the edge. You should never ever do what Silva did last night. He completely relied on a small amount of powerful precision strikes that do indeed get the finish many times but in the case that they do not, you end up with a sloppy L against a guy like Bisping which many people thought was out of the question. If he just pushed the pace a little more, dished out a little more offense, powerful or not, he could have had the judge score it in his favour. I'm not saying he should have broken his style and just constantly strike like Bisping did, but don't do so much NOTHING in between. Yes, he was really close to a finish at one point but it did not happen and he could have very much just fought differently to grab the W.

    But, we will see if he learns from his mistakes and I hope that he will be back again many times. Because even for his age, there were still moments of true greatness in his performance. We need more of THAT. Less of what we did see. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  2. Arm Barbarian

    Arm Barbarian Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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  3. Emjay

    Emjay And again and again and again and ag.. zzzzzzzz

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    I didn't read all of that but you can't objectively quantify damage, so there.
     
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  4. Summoning

    Summoning Silver Belt

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    Bisping 1,2,4 /thread
     
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  5. FlyingKimurabar

    FlyingKimurabar Silver Belt

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    Not reading all that garbage

    But Bisping rocked Silva twice as well. He did plenty of damage, Silva's skin just doesn't show it. Nerds need to stop judging a fight by someones face. I guess Silva won the Weidman fight because Weidman was bleeding and Silva looked like he just got out the shower!

    Silva's undefeated gais
     
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  6. Thuckey

    Thuckey I swear to drunk.. I'm not God. Platinum Member

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    For the record to those who didn't read, this was merely an unbiased analysis of strategy in mma not an excuse for Silva loss. All I was saying is that if Silva wants to recover from this he should play more by the rules of mma rather than just go nuts doing his own thing.
     
  7. rodent

    rodent Dylan Mckay Belt

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    ask the hospital bisping went to who won
     
  8. Thuckey

    Thuckey I swear to drunk.. I'm not God. Platinum Member

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    Great post you should make more of them


    For the record I reported you as this is completely irrelevant and disrespectful.

    And yes, wow, I made 3 threads today what is your point? My quality of posting has been very solid over the years and I have made countless successful threads and good posts. You're scum.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  9. Thuckey

    Thuckey I swear to drunk.. I'm not God. Platinum Member

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    That was one of the points I made.

    Sorry for wanting to start an intelligent in depth discussion about one of the aspects of the sport we all are fans of, Sherdog.

    Sometimes I forget this is Sherdog.
     
  10. MaureenCretis

    MaureenCretis Black Belt

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    Is the right answer
     
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  11. Swarthy

    Swarthy Yellow Card

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    image.jpg
    image.jpeg
    image.jpg

    Moral of the Story 1, 2, 4. Bisping = Win

    image.gif
     
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  12. Harlekin

    Harlekin Brown Belt

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    White northern people cut easily, mixed/southern/black people don't. There is also no contrast to blood color and you don't see black eyes that good.
    Bisping was denied a cutman
     
  13. KoChang

    KoChang Purple Belt

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    Silva still had plenty left to dummy Bisping. Bisping came to fight though. As an example, after being badly hurt by the flying knee Bisping wobbles out for the start of the next round and what does Silva do? Pounce on him? No, that would make sense. Instead, when the bell sounds he disengages and marches backwards in to the fence. Silva is a ridiculous circus unto himself.
     
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  14. Emjay

    Emjay And again and again and again and ag.. zzzzzzzz

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    KYP
     
  15. TheMMAnalyst

    TheMMAnalyst Purple Belt

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    I enjoyed your post, thought it gave some good insight about how there are inherent flaws in scoring MMA.

    Don't let the replies bother you, this is Sherdog after all lol
     
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  16. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    It's more Bisping won 3 rounds and AS won 2 rounds.
     
  17. Thuckey

    Thuckey I swear to drunk.. I'm not God. Platinum Member

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    That reply makes no sense if you actually read my post.
     
  18. Swarthy

    Swarthy Yellow Card

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    You mean the Hospital both Silva and Bisping went to??

    You got some serious

    image.gif
     
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  19. grzelkaj

    grzelkaj Orange Belt

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    I can "solve" this pretty easily.

    Bisping over Silva = Combat sports over Combat.

    You guys let emotions run rampent and we are left with 500 new threads on the same topic.
     
  20. Thuckey

    Thuckey I swear to drunk.. I'm not God. Platinum Member

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    That's the problem I think that people just see this as just another "Silva-Bisping" thread but really I am talking about mma in general and the concept of winning rounds strategically etc.

    But once again I am bored with Sherdog's lack of respect and willingness to openly discuss things with a shred of intellect and thus will forget I even bothered. 80% of Sherdog - you are disgraceful.
     

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