Bill Burr on Overpowered Female Movie Characters - ‘Atomic Blonde’ - Lack of Realism & Pandering

[Only Here for Attachments]

People need to stop taking movies and cartoons so damn seriously

 

[SmilinDesperado]

no more pandering or unrealistic than having fat nerdy 3s like Adam Sandler or Jonah Hill hook up with top shelf babes like Bridgette Wilson or Emma Stone in their movies

Lol because hot chicks never hook up with fat, nerdy, or average guys?
If you're rich, you can get whatever you want.
And even if you're not rich it's still possible to get yourself a hot girl for a variety of reasons. Girls aren't all as shallow as guys when it comes to choosing mates and physical appearance

 

[SmilinDesperado]

NO IT WOULD NOT. YOU ARE 100% WRONG.


And that is what you do not understand.

The feats done by Borne, Wick, Jolie or some child actor are beyond ridiculous for any human.

You accept it from Borne (Matt Damon a manlet) because you see a masculine male figure and therefore think, ya that shit is within the realm of reasonable (director playing to your ego that perhaps...maybe you could do it too if in shape) when in fact Matt Damon has no more real chance of doing that stuff then does Angelina Jolie. The things they pull off simply are not within their strength or physicality limits and both would end up dead trying. Angelina would be no more dead than Matt. Even The Rock would stand no statistically more meaningful a chance to pull the stuff then Angelina would. They would all be dead.

So you must suspend belief and allow for a bit of super human ability (beyond peak human) to be imparted to these action characters and once you do that a child or woman with some super human powers can do what a man can do.

IM NOT 100% WRONG.
I disagree with you. Your world is black and white. Mine isn't.
You see no difference between what the Rock and Angelina Jolie could theoretically do in a combat situation. That is 100% retarded. So I will end this retarded exchange with you.
Good day, sir.
<{cruzshake}>

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I wouldn't say Atomic Blonde is THAT down to earth SmilinDesperado, it makes more political references but its still a pretty stylised film, something like Aliens whilst obviously fiction in location is actually more serious in tone.

Action wise as well it seems like a strange film to single out here as I felt it did address physical issues. Yeah Theron does show a typical Hollywood inhuman toughness but actually I felt a lot of the fight scenes played to the physical side, she basically wins via being more skilled and simply more brutal often using the environment to her favour, when she ends up in a situation where its pure strength vs strength with larger men she loses getting tossed around.

If your suspending disbelief its more that her character is arguebly more skilled than anyone ever could be not that she's showing strength someone with that frame could never posses.

 

[MikeMcMann]

IM NOT 100% WRONG.
I disagree with you. Your world is black and white. Mine isn't.
You see no difference between what the Rock and Angelina Jolie could theoretically do in a combat situation. That is 100% retarded. So I will end this retarded exchange with you.
Good day, sir.
<{cruzshake}>

Honestly, just take your strawman shit out of here and concede you cannot win without trying to make up circumstances.

No one said there is no difference between what the Rock and Angelina could theoretical do in combat situations so GTFOH with that.

What is said and is 100% correct and where you are 100% wrong is that the things the Rock is doing in the action movies require a suspension of reality and belief because it would not be achievable by him just because he is big and muscley. He would die trying just as Angelina would in her action movies. Both being dead means NOTHING if you say the Rock stood a 0.001% greater chance of achieving his.

So again to repeat the point, if you are going to suspend belief that a male can achieve feats that are well above peak human such as Matt Damon, The Rock, Tom Cruise, etc and yet say to suspend belief for women or children doing the same or similar un-achievable stuff is beyond you, then that is on you. Its not because it makes any less sense.

And again the point is not that you have to like any of them (men, women or children in action movies) but simply that if you are willing to suspend belief neither is inherently dumber or less believable doing the feats.

 

[MaureenCretis]

The fight scenes in the Total Recall remake featuring Kate Beckinsale, all 100lbs of her, beating up Colin Farrel with her pipe cleaner arms were a bit high on the "disbelief suspension" scale.

 

[Randy Trevor]

Lol because hot chicks never hook up with fat, nerdy, or average guys?
If you're rich, you can get whatever you want.
And even if you're not rich it's still possible to get yourself a hot girl for a variety of reasons. Girls aren't all as shallow as guys when it comes to choosing mates and physical appearance

Sure it does happen but it sure as hell isn't typical. No reason women shouldn't have escapist fantasies that lead them to believe that with proper training they could beat a guy on a square go. Similar to how back to the Future and Superbad made nerdy guys think that if they said the right thing at a party or stood up to a bully they would pull prom queens. The former is more extreme, sure, but it's the same general principle

 

[MikeMcMann]

Sure it does happen but it sure as hell isn't typical. No reason women shouldn't have escapist fantasies that lead them to believe that with proper training they could beat a guy on a square go. Similar to how back to the Future and Superbad made nerdy guys think that if they said the right thing at a party or stood up to a bully they would pull prom queens. The former is more extreme, sure, but it's the same general principle

Yup and that is exactly the point.

When we see Will Smith, or TOm Cruise beating aliens and we enjoy the movie or when we see Stathom, Damon, , Reeves, Stallone Cruise, or the Rock doing things no peak human could accomplish in their action movies they are feeding us escapist, suspend your belief and imagine men could achieve the impossible type stuff. It plays to imagination part of our ego.

When some (particularly guys) see women doing the same type of feats it just bugs them. Suddenly they pull out their critical,literal eye and say they cannot accept it as the women are doing things they should never b e able to do. This despite the fact that in pretty much EVERY single male action movie made in recent times the men are doing a lot of stuff no male should be able to do. But they suspend belief and go for the ride and enjoy it.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Sure it does happen but it sure as hell isn't typical. No reason women shouldn't have escapist fantasies that lead them to believe that with proper training they could beat a guy on a square go. Similar to how back to the Future and Superbad made nerdy guys think that if they said the right thing at a party or stood up to a bully they would pull prom queens. The former is more extreme, sure, but it's the same general principle

It's not typical, but it isn't exactly rare either. I could walk around some crowded place in San Diego, or Seoul, Korea (where i live now) and i would be able to see more than a few couples where the guy is dating out of his league.
That's not going to be a typical nerdy guy's experience of course, but it happens enough where I don't have to really question it.
So im much more able to overlook a similar thing in a movie because it's something i can imagine plausibly happening in real life. A girl beating up a dude is something i give a lot less leeway to because it wouldn't happen. Even a grown woman vs a 14 year old boy would end poorly for the girl.

I do want to just throw out a reminder that this is not some huge deal to me. Seeing a chick beat some guys ass in a action movie doesn't ruin my day. I roll my eyes and forget about it 5 minutes later

 

[Randy Trevor]

I do want to just throw out a reminder that this is not some huge deal to me. Seeing a chick beat some guys ass in a action movie doesn't ruin my day. I roll my eyes and forget about it 5 minutes later

Same. Most people seem to think they HAVE to see what ever movie is playing in theaters. Either don't watch it, or go and make fun of it.

 

[benebox]

That ignore's one key point which I will make clear

(3) based on your point (1) above then almost all of the male genre action movies were garbage as well because even a 200lb man, let alone the guys the size of Damon, Stathom, Cruise, etc could never beat up and survive most of the things they are surviving in those movies.


So if 'believability' is your issue and you cannot suspend belief for characters doing basically super human things in action movies then the genre is not for you and that is ok. If you can suspend belief and accept them doing super human things then a child doing super human things is no different than a 200lb man doing them.

My point was most, if not all of those movies you menioned go to point (2). I'm not saying it means they are garbage, just unrealistic fun movies where they have pushed the bondaries of what a human can physically do.

However there are levels to realism and in a film like 'Gladiator' (for example) which although improbable it is still believable, such a scene wouldn't go well. Then there are films like 'Planet of the apes' which I would still argue such a scene doesn't fit (just as a scene of a male soilder beating a gorrila with his bare hands wouldn't) as it is trying to make the scenario of intelligent apes in the 'real' world as beliveable as possible.

 

[MacDuffle]

Even a realism movie is operating on an exagerrated scale by combining artful camera angles and impossible views from vantage points no one possessed

By engaging in any cinematography whatsoever films don't match the pov of its subjects, and extend artistic rendering of a realism setting. Hell, audio mixing and sound effects extend and enhance.

If posters ITT are going to try to go all the way down the line of shit that gets enhanced by the process of film construction, to having beef with female vs male fight stunt choreography, you've already missed the point of the film medium and its natural, inherent slant towards hyperbole.

Bill burr is a great comic, but he oversimplifies all and everything in that podcast. Just listen to it

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Bill burr rants like no other , of course it's exaggerated, that's what ranting is, exaggerated complaining.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Uhh, that is why it is called fantasy.

 

[MikeMcMann]

My point was most, if not all of those movies you menioned go to point (2). I'm not saying it means they are garbage, just unrealistic fun movies

"Fun" is subjective and irrelevant to the point we are discussing. I've seen many women including my ex loving to suspend reality and see other women pound out men. That is "fun" for them so by your standard those are good movies too unless you say 'only what is fun for you is good', which would be foolish to say.

where they have pushed the bondaries of what a human can physically do.

NO.

They have pushed well beyond the boundaries of what humans can do and survive in 99% of them. You have to suspend belief to go on the ride with them.

However there are levels to realism and in a film like 'Gladiator' (for example) which although improbable it is still believable, such a scene wouldn't go well. Then there are films like 'Planet of the apes' which I would still argue such a scene doesn't fit (just as a scene of a male soilder beating a gorrila with his bare hands wouldn't) as it is trying to make the scenario of intelligent apes in the 'real' world as beliveable as possible.

You are all over the place.

Certain films like Gladiator try to reflect some historical accuracy and that is there genre.

Other films like Borne, James Bond, Transporter Series, Fast and Furious series, Die Hard Series, Lethal Weapon series, are all suspend reality action flicks. If you can suspend reali8ty and enjoy these types of flicks where the men are often achieving feats no human male could achieve then you should have no complaint with women or children doing the same feats.

No I am not saying you have to LIKE every single movie. And if you don't like then just say so. But if you say you do not like it because its unbelievable and yet you like the aforementioned then you are inconsistent at best and a hypocrite at worst.

 

[benebox]

"Fun" is subjective and irrelevant to the point we are discussing. I've seen many women including my ex loving to suspend reality and see other women pound out men. That is "fun" for them so by your standard those are good movies too unless you say 'only what is fun for you is good', which would be foolish to say.

Didn't I just say they were fun?

NO.

They have pushed well beyond the boundaries of what humans can do and survive in 99% of them. You have to suspend belief to go on the ride with them.

You just replied to my point with 'NO' then went on to agree with my point?

You are all over the place.

Certain films like Gladiator try to reflect some historical accuracy and that is there genre.

Other films like Borne, James Bond, Transporter Series, Fast and Furious series, Die Hard Series, Lethal Weapon series, are all suspend reality action flicks. If you can suspend reali8ty and enjoy these types of flicks where the men are often achieving feats no human male could achieve then you should have no complaint with women or children doing the same feats.

You've basically completely ignored what I wrote. I said such scenes wouldn't fit in films trying to be realistic to human pyshics. The films you mentioned would be considered as films that arn't based in the realm of reality and should be considered unrealistic fun (as in good) movies.

But as you have brought up the arguement that I wasn't making I would say that for those who find it harder to imagine a woman or a child doing such feats, it probably has more to do with personal experience. A young adult male is the stongest psyical form a human can be so with that knowledge alongside witnessing men acomplish feats woman can't on a day to day basis (especially for those who follow sports) it would take more of an imagination. Put it this way, a Rottweiler could never kill a lion but I would find such a scene more believable than if a poodle where to do it.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Didn't I just say they were fun?



You just replied to my point with 'NO' then went on to agree with my point?

NO.

What you have done is exactly what I have argued with another shertard about doing in the past. A shertard once told me that Fantasy movies were not good movies and his reasoning was because he did not enjoy them. He would not accept that others could like different things them him and his subjective opinion alone does not determine good or not.

Similarly you are saying you can see that in most action movies with males the action is beyond human capabilities but because you find them 'fun' you give them a pass. You don't find the one's with women typically as 'fun' and therefore they get no such pass.

that is not how things work. Sorry.

You've basically completely ignored what I wrote. I said such scenes wouldn't fit in films trying to be realistic to human pyshics. The films you mentioned would be considered as films that arn't based in the realm of reality and should be considered unrealistic fun (as in good) movies.

NO.

You need to then list ALL the movies you are not seperatiing into the 'realism' category.

If you are ok with movies like the Die Hard, Transporter, Borne, Bond, Mission Impossible series then you are ok suspending reality when it comes to normal human feats. In such case then you should not use that complaint when it comes to women or children completing the feats. You can say you do not like the movies but not tied to believability.

But as you have brought up the arguement that I wasn't making I would say that for those who find it harder to imagine a woman or a child doing such feats, it probably has more to do with personal experience. A young adult male is the stongest psyical form a human can be so with that knowledge alongside witnessing men acomplish feats woman can't on a day to day basis (especially for those who follow sports) it would take more of an imagination. Put it this way, a Rottweiler could never kill a lion but I would find such a scene more believable than if a poodle where to do it.

Stop trying to make this stupid point as it is just that, stupid.

You are trying to set some bullshit comparative.

it does not matter if The Rock is stronger than Charlize Theron when it comes to impossible feats to pull off.

You keep coming back with 'well he is stronger and bigger then her and therefore could accomplish more' as if that makes it ok for them to pull off impossible feats.

if a feat is impossible it does not matter if the man is bigger and stronger. that you take some type of weird angle that therefore it is ok and 'fun' to see the Rock do it but wrong to see Charlize is just stupid. Yes he is bigger and stronger but you are suspending reality for both for many of the feats they accomplish. That is what matters and if you can do it for the Rock you cannot use it as a complaint against a woman or child.

 

[blaseblah]

Lol because hot chicks never hook up with fat, nerdy, or average guys?
If you're rich, you can get whatever you want.
And even if you're not rich it's still possible to get yourself a hot girl for a variety of reasons. Girls aren't all as shallow as guys when it comes to choosing mates and physical appearance

The guys in these movies aren't rich though. They are losers with low self esteem who real life women would be running from.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

TLDW: Bill says female feats are ridiculous in some movies, but says the same of the 80's Stallone and Arnold doing over the top shit

Holy shit I found out why Burr is not funny at all finally.
He is a fucking WHINER.

He needs to pretend he is Don fucking Rickles or someone and can tell a joke.

This is shit that happens usually with women and this is how I whine about it like a bitchmade. Fuck him.

While I don't agree with Sarah Silverman's or George Carlin's views on politics and religion, they can tell a fucking joke and are two of my favorite comedians....yeah, Carlin does whine a bit but that is not the majority of his bit.
Burr's whole SET is him fucking whining like a bitchmade

Fucking whining about realism???? It is a fucking action movie. We don't want real. We want someone that looks good and kills a lot of motherfuckers in visually appealing ways. We don't want GSP vs Matt Hughes in movies....we have the UFC.

Anyone who thinks this hack is funny should think about it real deep after I woke you ass like a cock.

 

[chardog]

Im far from a empowered feminist but as ive said before this complaint is so stupid. A man taking out a horde of enemies is just as fantastical. Who would think such a thing would exist in FANTASY

The double standard exists because some guys are bitter towards women because they have to jerk off into their socks every night instead of getting any so they lash out at stupid shit like the "realism" of a fuckin spy movie

you're a secret feminist.

a man can knock another man out with a single punch. That is real, and that can happen. A women knocking a guy twice her size out is unreal and cant happen.

it has nothing to do with double standards, it's about plausibility. Atomic blond, lmfao, gtfo. I mean women with a weapon or superpower, sure, but being equals? yeah right.