BETTER CALL SAUL Discussion Thread v.3

[Peteyandjia]

Can't you even figure out whether you agree or disagree with what I wrote in the above post? I see you're posting on this site but haven't yet said you agree or you disagree with it. Earlier you said you think I'm wrong, so what do you think he did with the money, spend it all on himself and leave nothing for his family?

I find it simple. He set a goal to leave money for his family. He told Jesse that was why he got into the meth business. Walt made millions of dollars and did leave them for his family. By the end of the show he achieved that goal of leaving money for his family. What is the difficult part for you?

Part of being a man is indeed providing for your family. But there's a fine argument to be made that being a man does not entail cooking crystal meth and lying to your family and constantly putting them in danger. Walt has a chance to be a man in the fourth episode of the first season, when his former business partners offer to pay for his chemotherapy treatments. He's offered a way out that doesn't involve being a criminal, doesn't put his family at risk and doesn't break the law. In this deus ex machina moment, he gets offered an out; but in his mind, it means eating a little humble pie by accepting money from people he feels betrayed him. He turns down their offer for reasons of ego. He basically says, "No, I'd rather cook crystal meth than take this free money."

 

[Blackjack]

Again:

The end

It's strange that if you would be correct if you were making a case for Hank doing what he did for himself and not because it was his job. Hank's superior had forbid Hank to continue going after Walt. Hank didn't have the maturity to follow the orders of his superior and it cost him his life. Had he been n the desert on orders from his boss, he would have had adequate back-up. Hank, not being the sharpest knife in the drawer gambled his life on using the strategy to catch Walt which was created by meth-head Jesse. Good going Hank! Imagine: A strategy created by a meth-head failed!

Hank had a lot of bravado but deep dow he was a coward. He actually started trembling with fear when Skylar told him she wanted to get a lawyer. Hank didn't want Skylar to make use of her constitutional rights. BTW, Hank never did answer the question of how it would benefit society for the taxpayers to spend their hard earned money to incarcerate a main with terminal cancer who was already retired from all criminal activity.

 

[Blackjack]

Part of being a man is indeed providing for your family. But there's a fine argument to be made that being a man does not entail cooking crystal meth and lying to your family and constantly putting them in danger. Walt has a chance to be a man in the fourth episode of the first season, when his former business partners offer to pay for his chemotherapy treatments. He's offered a way out that doesn't involve being a criminal, doesn't put his family at risk and doesn't break the law. In this deus ex machina moment, he gets offered an out; but in his mind, it means eating a little humble pie by accepting money from people he feels betrayed him. He turns down their offer for reasons of ego. He basically says, "No, I'd rather cook crystal meth than take this free money."

Walt considered it charity. All the years that had gone by since he left Gray Matter but before he got sick he never received an offer to come back to work for them. Only when they found out he had cancer did they offer him a job so I can see how it appeared to him as charity.

Personally I think charity is a good thing. It helps a lot of people who need help. In Hank's place I would have accepted the job with Gray Matter, if I hadn't negotiated a reasonable deal when I left the first time. I would have said "I'll leave Gray Matter for 25% stock in the company." Then all this other stuff would have been unnecessary. Walt would have been worth at least a quarter of a billion dollars had he done what I would have done.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Walt considered it charity.

Right, and he couldn't put his ego aside to accept it for his family.

Hence, he was serving his ego... not his family.

 

[Blackjack]

Right, and he couldn't put his ego aside to accept it for his family.

Hence, he was serving his ego... not his family.

You call it ago; he would call it principle. He wouldn't abandon his principles of what is right and what is wrong. He wanted to make the money he left them through his own effort - not charity. I would have taken the "charity job" because I'm strongly against being a criminal, but different people have different principles.

 

[Peteyandjia]

You call it ago; he would call it principle. He wouldn't abandon his principles of what is right and what is wrong. He wanted to make the money he left them through his own effort - not charity. I would have taken the "charity job" because I'm strongly against being a criminal, but different people have different principles.

It's not a defensible 'principle' to put your family in constant danger by entering the meth world because you have too much pride to accept free help from your billionaire friends.

 

[Blackjack]

It's not a defensible 'principle' to put your family in constant danger by entering the meth world because you have too much pride to accept free help from your billionaire friends.

Walt was in much more constant danger than his wife or kids. His wife or kids were never injured or almost killed like Walt was. So apparently his principle that charity was wrong was a principle about which he had very strong feelings. Anyone would have taken the easy way unless it just absolutely went against his personal convictions. For the record, Walt was successful in keeping his wife or kids from getting hurt or killed. Walt did what he thought was right and agree or disagree with his principles, the bottom line is he did achieve his top priority of leaving them a substantial amount of money to secure his wife and kids' financial security.

He certainly didn't take the easy way, which I would have. he was almost mudered several times so his convictions regarding accepting charity from those people must have been awfully strong. Of course we never got the full story of what made him leave Gray Matter. Did they do something awful to him? Something unforgivable? Possibly.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Walt was in much more constant danger than his wife or kids. His wife or kids were never injured or almost killed like Walt was.

Pictured:

The White family house, master bedroom.

Vince Gilligan, the writer/creator of the show himself, said that Walter did not do it for his family.

Your incessant compulsion to argue otherwise makes no sense at all.

 

[Blackjack]

Pictured:

The White family house, master bedroom.

Vince Gilligan, the writer/creator of the show himself, said that Walter did not do it for his family.

Your incessant compulsion to argue otherwise makes no sense at all.

Walt made the money for his family. He didn't spent it all or even a large percentage of it on himself. He left as much as he could for his family. You can't argue that and thinking you can is nonsensical. Actions speak louder than words. After saying he was getting into that business to leave money fr his family, he achieved that goal. He made good on it. What is there to argue?

 

[Peteyandjia]

What is there to argue?

Nothing, since pretty much everyone, including the writer of the show & the character himself, all agree that you are wrong.

 

[Blackjack]

Nothing, since pretty much everyone, including the writer of the show & the character himself, all agree that you are wrong.

They all said he left nothing for his family because he only did it for himself and naturally, spent it all oh himself since that was his real goal? I'd need sources to convince me of that. Good luck finding them. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Peteyandjia]

They all said he left nothing for his family because he only did it for himself and naturally, spent it all oh himself since that was his real goal? I'd need sources to convince me of that. Good luck finding them. I won't hold my breath.

You seem to think a bunch of money is worth shattering your family.

 

[Blackjack]

You seem to think a bunch of money is worth shattering your family.

No, I'm looking at it through his eyes. After all the show isn't about me. I would have taken the Gray Matter job. Because he said he needed to leave his family a lot of money (and then he actually calculated the minimum amount he would have to leave) he said that was why he got into the meth business. Walt thought that leaving his family financial security was worth the risks. His wife and kids were safe and sound by the end of the show. He was competent enough to keep them safe.

His wife and kids weren't shattered! Skylar complained a lot ( and was hated by the fans for it and is generally considered the most hated character on the show) but getting back to Walt and dealing with Skylar's complaints, if there's some part of you that's a man at some point in time you're going to say "I don't give a damn what you say; I'm going to do what I want to do."

But If you're a sponge and you have no backbone, I suppose it could really get to you. I've never been in that position.

 

[Peteyandjia]

No, I'm looking at it through his eyes.

Try listening to it through his mouth

 

[Blackjack]

Try listening to it through his mouth

He made good on his vow to leave money for his wife and kids. Of course he never said he didn't so why do you think he just spent it all on himself instead of leaving it for his wife and kids?

There's a disconnect in your thinking. He vowed to leave his family financially secure. He explained to Jese that's why he got into the business. Walt achieved his goal of making the necessary money and more, and he left it to his son. Where did you get thecae that he didn't keep his vow, that he lied when he explained to Jesse why he was getting into the business, and that despite all the millions of dollars he made, Walt left never left it to his wife and kids since you insist he didn't do it to leave money for his family? Do you think you saw Walt spend it all on himself?

The discussion at hand is: Did Walt enter the meth business so he could leave his family finically secure? He accomplished that. He made more money quicker that way than he could have any other way and that was crucial to him since he knew he was dying soon. If you can't agree that Walt's actions matched his words and that the achieved his top priority of leaving a lot of money to his family, you've got a disconnect somewhere in your mind. After all, this isn't rocket science; it's a TV show meant to appeal to the average person of just average or less than average education.

 

[Peteyandjia]

The discussion at hand is: Did Walt enter the meth business so he could leave his family finically secure?

Yeah, and the answer is a very clear no. "I did it for me."

 

[FightsFTW]

Walt made the money for his family. He didn't spent it all or even a large percentage of it on himself. He left as much as he could for his family. You can't argue that and thinking you can is nonsensical. Actions speak louder than words. After saying he was getting into that business to leave money fr his family, he achieved that goal. He made good on it. What is there to argue?

Nothing, since pretty much everyone, including the writer of the show & the character himself, all agree that you are wrong.

Lol you two. In a sense you're both right. Petey is right though in that the true intention of the show was that Walt was selfish and did it for himself over his family, though obviously still loving his family.

However I do remember Gilligan saying that it was open to interpretation and nobody is really "wrong".

I personally when watching the show thought Walt wasn't a bad guy despite his actions and I did always see him as a loving family man in the end.

 

[Blackjack]

Yeah, and the answer is a very clear no. "I did it for me."

So he spent the money he made on himself and din't leave money for his family because he did it for himself (as you comprehended the actions of the show)? Talk is cheap. You keep clinging to that oe quote he made when he was very sick, near death, and possibly out of his mind. I could just as easily point out quotes from Walt which contradict the quote you used. You have a very selective memory.

You use the quote that serves your purpose but you have as yet to explain why if he wasn't doing it for his family why did he leave all the money to them instead of spending it on himself, since after all, you believe he did it for himself?

 

[Peteyandjia]

You keep clinging to that oe quote he made when he was very sick, near death, and possibly out of his mind.

It's not one quote, it's the entire point of the series, bookended from the very first season when he turned down billionaires who offered to bail him out, all the way to the finale when Walt comes clean and admits the whole thing was about him.

Saying 'he didn't spend the money on himself' is irrelevant, making the money for his family was just the excuse he used to go on his insane ego binge.

 

[Blackjack]

Lol you two. In a sense you're both right. Petey is right though in that the true intention of the show was that Walt was selfish and did it for himself over his family, though obviously still loving his family.

However I do remember Gilligan saying that it was open to interpretation and nobody is really "wrong".

I personally when watching the show thought Walt wasn't a bad guy despite his actions and I did always see him as a loving family man in the end.

If the public hadn't seen Walt as the hero of the show and instead the sordid type of man Petey makes him out to be, which character would that have left for the public to root for? "Idiot" Jesse? Skylar?

How about Hank? Here's a guy who was so damn dumb that after ignoring the orders of his superior, he went out into the desert with no back-up, all on a vendetta to put a man who was retired from criminal activity and soon dying of terminal cancer so that the taxpayers could spend their hard earned money incarcerating a harmless to society terminal cancer patient. Hank chose a job where he would go out and look for bad guys and guess what? he found them! That's not Walt's fault. If you look for bad guys for long enough, you'll find them. At least have some back-up!