belt "rank"

[tadpole0001]

lets say that person A and person B are of similar rank but the only difference is that person A competes and wins a lot in tournaments.

is person A's belt rank 'more real' person B's rank.

or what i am trying to say is that are they the same rank in your eyes?

 

[Deleted member 3729]

What does this have to do with grappling technique?

 

[jasond]

Rank isn't just about competition. What about technical knowledge and teaching ability? Some people are great fighters. Some people are great teachers. Some (though arguably not many) are both. None of their ranks are "more real" than the other.

 

[tadpole0001]

Rank isn't just about competition. What about technical knowledge and teaching ability? Some people are great fighters. Some people are great teachers. Some (though arguably not many) are both. None of their ranks are "more real" than the other.

this is where i disagree.

to me martial arts is about fighting ability and the ability to defend yourself. that being said, i think that person A (who proves his ability) is of greater rank that person B even though they technically are the same belt and stripe rank. person A is "more real."

this is just my opinion though.

 

[lechien]

lets say that person A and person B are of similar rank but the only difference is that person A competes and wins a lot in tournaments.

is person A's belt rank 'more real' person B's rank.

or what i am trying to say is that are they the same rank in your eyes?

I think you need to understand what is BJJ ranking for?

For me, 2 blue belts awarded by the same BB are the same.

One blue might be a competition stud and that is just about it.

 

[tadpole0001]

I think you need to understand what is BJJ ranking for?

For me, 2 blue belts awarded by the same BB are the same.

One blue might be a competition stud and that is just about it.

yeah but sometimes you need to dig deeper than whats on the surface.


look at it like this: i mean how could you compare the physics phD of einstein with the physics phD of joe schmoe?

to me, the physics phD of einstein is much greater than anybody elses who has a phD in physics

 

[lechien]

this is where i disagree.

to me martial arts is about fighting ability and the ability to defend yourself. that being said, i think that person A (who proves his ability) is of greater rank that person B even though they technically are the same belt and stripe rank. person A is "more real."

this is just my opinion though.

What do you mean by "more real"?

 

[johil d'o]

yeah but sometimes you need to dig deeper than whats on the surface.


look at it like this: i mean how could you compare the physics phD of einstein with the physics phD of joe schmoe?

to me, the physics phD of einstein is much greater than anybody elses who has a phD in physics

Einstein didn't have a PhD so false assumption there...:redface:

I'd just say that both guys deserved their belts of PhDs and leave it at that. No need to make further inquiry as to the validity of the belts.

 

[tadpole0001]

What do you mean by "more real"?

more legit

like the dude could go to any dojo in the world with his rank and his rank would not be questioned by anybody

 

[Napp]

So many threads on belts now.
I'd say maybe if they were BB
but no, comps don't make you more real.

 

[lechien]

more legit

like the dude could go to any dojo in the world with his rank and his rank would not be questioned by anybody

Ok, so if this competition stud has his name on the most top BJJ International competitions, people would pay to attend his seminars.

No one would questioned his ranks because he has an awesome competition record.

 

[lechien]

this is where i disagree.

to me martial arts is about fighting ability and the ability to defend yourself. that being said, i think that person A (who proves his ability) is of greater rank that person B even though they technically are the same belt and stripe rank. person A is "more real."

this is just my opinion though.

I used to think like you: "BJJ is forged in the heat of competition! etc.."

Once you will be around BJJ for a while, you will realize that grading is not as black and white as you think.

I would leave it to your instructor to make the decision and do not worry about it.

 

[Drew Foster]

God can we consolidate all these ranking, belt, advancement, comparing techers/students, etc. threads into one place already??? It's been crazy lately.

 

[lechien]

yeah but sometimes you need to dig deeper than whats on the surface.


look at it like this: i mean how could you compare the physics phD of einstein with the physics phD of joe schmoe?

to me, the physics phD of einstein is much greater than anybody elses who has a phD in physics

If the same BB awards 2 x purples belts: one to his famous national champion, the other to his average non competitive person.

For me or their instructor, they are the same level.

Questionned answered.

 

[lechien]

God can we consolidate all these ranking, belt, advancement, comparing techers/students, etc. threads into one place already??? It's been crazy lately.

every time, you get a newbie wondering when he will get his first stripes!!

 

[Sloth]

I view them as the same as far as validity goes.

A competitor might have a completely different outlook on BJJ than someone who doesn't care at all about competiton, but his technique, skill and knowledge can be equal to or superior to the competitor. Winning tournaments is good pressure testing, but there are lots of rules that shape ones BJJ into a specific mould. Someone who doesn't compete doesn't have to worry about points, leg locks in the gi, calf crushers, time limits, etc...

 

[Calibur]

I see two types of students.

Competitive and recreational.

When a student starts the coach decides if they are a competitive student or a recreational one. A recreational one may be a guy who isn't into sports. A middle aged person coming in after a long hiatus from physical activity, a girl just wanting to get self defense practice, or simply a guy with bigger priorities in his life than BJJ. Many of these people compete, and some of them win but they do not sacrifice their lives for BJJ. They don't think about cutting weight, and they don't spend extra hours at the gym doing drills or tournament strategies.

Than their are competitive students.

You know who these people are. A lot of them are students with lots of time and BJJ is a significant part of their life.

Now, competitive students and recreational students are held to different standards. If a competitive white has 3 tournies and comes in first in only two of them the coach may wait for the promotion. But a recreational white may do one tourny and come in at 3rd place, yet still get his promotion.

Is the recreational player better? No. The coach just has other plans for the competitive white. When mundials and pan ams come up, the competitive belts are there, not the recreational guys. That is what the coach is preparing their students for.

I could go through a recreational brown belt on aggression and speed alone, but that doesn't make me worthy of a brown belt, nor does it make the other guy weak. We are just in different categories and if you analyze your gym (not your college club) you will see it.

Competitive students win more matches than recreational ones, but if you ask them both to analyze a problem with someone's triangle choke or mount escape, you would find both answers just as technical.

Belts matter. Just not in the way everyone thinks.

 

[anaconda]

Rank is subjective as well as objective. The level Jacare or Marcelo Garcia had to achieve to get their black belts are far different than the middle-aged, uncoordinated guy in your class.

 

[anaconda]

I see two types of students.

Competitive and recreational.

When a student starts the coach decides if they are a competitive student or a recreational one. A recreational one may be a guy who isn't into sports. A middle aged person coming in after a long hiatus from physical activity, a girl just wanting to get self defense practice, or simply a guy with bigger priorities in his life than BJJ. Many of these people compete, and some of them win but they do not sacrifice their lives for BJJ. They don't think about cutting weight, and they don't spend extra hours at the gym doing drills or tournament strategies.

Than their are competitive students.

You know who these people are. A lot of them are students with lots of time and BJJ is a significant part of their life.

Now, competitive students and recreational students are held to different standards. If a competitive white has 3 tournies and comes in first in only two of them the coach may wait for the promotion. But a recreational white may do one tourny and come in at 3rd place, yet still get his promotion.

Is the recreational player better? No. The coach just has other plans for the competitive white. When mundials and pan ams come up, the competitive belts are there, not the recreational guys. That is what the coach is preparing their students for.

I could go through a recreational brown belt on aggression and speed alone, but that doesn't make me worthy of a brown belt, nor does it make the other guy weak. We are just in different categories and if you analyze your gym (not your college club) you will see it.

Competitive students win more matches than recreational ones, but if you ask them both to analyze a problem with someone's triangle choke or mount escape, you would find both answers just as technical.

Belts matter. Just not in the way everyone thinks.

Well put. There is even more to it than that, I think, but more detailed examinations are left to those with the burden of promoting and get highly subjective.

But as far as broad delineations, this sums it up well.

 

[lechien]

yeah but sometimes you need to dig deeper than whats on the surface.


look at it like this: i mean how could you compare the physics phD of einstein with the physics phD of joe schmoe?

to me, the physics phD of einstein is much greater than anybody elses who has a phD in physics

You forget that your average BJJ guy who is not sucessfull at the competition can still easily defeat a random guy on the street that knows nothing about BJJ.

So he might not be the competition stud but he does not mean he cant hold his own in a street fight.