News Bellator sale talks heating up

[skylolow]

If PFL fails which is a highly likely scenario, it will just further centralize the mma space around the ufc by taking out not one, but two big promotions. It will just be UFC, ONE (which seems to be leaving mma behind in place of just Muay Thai and barely book their mma guys), and regional powerhouses like Rizin, KSW, and ACA

Isn't that just kind of evolution of sports in general? One form/league/org sits at the top and rest fight for scraps and they come and go over time.

Really, soccer is one of the only major sports that has a lot of leagues doing very well around the world on there own.

 

[TorontoTO]

Isn't that just kind of evolution of sports in general? One form/league/org sits at the top and rest fight for scraps and they come and go over time.

Really, soccer is one of the only major sports that has a lot of leagues doing very well around the world on there own.

The exception is that the ufc is not a team sport like those others and an individual one, so it should be compared to stuff like boxing.

plus there is inter team competition for players in those other leagues, not the league deciding everyone involved individual salaries. So this evolution to a unified singular league would just be a disaster

plus besides soccer, Euroleague basketball in Europe is doing great with amazing fan turnout along with having talent that dominates in the nba. Look at the current mvp voting is mostly all former euroleague and European players

 

[skylolow]

You can't punish the Bellator fighters because VIACOM was to cheap to promote an Org with fighters ranked worldwide top 10 including the #1 ranked LHW fighter in the world. Yeah I hope most Bellator fighters that can opt out of joining PFL jump ship instead of going to the Titanic PFL.

This pretty much sums it up.

For what ever reason Viacom was only spending what they were spending. They really didn't do shit for Bellator outside of here is your budget have at it. Just to show how out of touch they were they rarely ever ran a rerun of Bellator event until on Showtime, never utilized Bellator's very deep video library on any of their streaming platforms, and this could go on and on.

Really who knows, what went on behind the scenes either. I mean when Coker first came in we got the typical Coker shit like Gracie vs Shamrock and Kimbo vs Dada 5000, sign every past there prime UFC fighter, do whatever you can for pop in ratings no matter how crazy it might sound(ie: the mask man in the cage shit) and then at some point something happen behind the scenes. They did a 180 on that front and have really never looked back. Maybe that was the start of rift between Coker and Viacom on how they viewed Bellator. After that it just kind of seemed like Bellator never really had a home with Viacom until they got on Showtime. Maybe Coker and the head of Showtime get along better from the Strikeforce days. But either way Viacom wasn't going to pump money into it anymore and the budget was the budget.

 

[skylolow]

The exception is that the ufc is not a team sport like those others and an individual one, so it should be compared to stuff like boxing.

plus there is inter team competition for players in those other leagues, not the league deciding everyone involved individual salaries. So this evolution to a unified singular league would just be a disaster

plus besides soccer, Euroleague basketball in Europe is doing great with amazing fan turnout along with having talent that dominates in the nba. Look at the current mvp voting is mostly all former euroleague and European players

I get all that but I'm talking about how the consumer consumes the sport.

If your a NFL fan you watch the NFL and could probably careless about the CFL, XFL, USFL, etc. Same with MLB. If your a fan of MLB very few fans are trying to catch Japan League games or Caribe series games, etc. Now grant it some hardcore fans might seek out that stuff. But in general its very niche.

MMA fans as whole just look at MMA as the UFC. Us hard core fans understand there is a lot more going on in the world of MMA and some of it very good. It's just no org has ever got average joe to care about MMA outside of the UFC.

 

[Stan]

MMA fans as whole just look at MMA as the UFC. Us hard core fans understand there is a lot more going on in the world of MMA and some of it very good. It's just no org has ever got average joe to care about MMA outside of the UFC.

I find this only to be true within the USA but its not the case in Europe and Asia. Yes the USA has the biggest market so the only way for another MMA Org to become successful in the USA they would have to become very successful in Europe and Asia first and that would draw the attention of USA MMA fans.

 

[Terry_Dak_Tull]

If PFL is making an announcement, we should probably expect it this week with their playoffs starting.

 

[careto]

If PFL is making an announcement, we should probably expect it this week with their playoffs starting.

They said they would announce something big in August. I would assume it could be this week or the week after the Bellator event in Sioux Falls.

 

[BOXINGLOPEZ]

They said they would announce something big in August. I would assume it could be this week or the week after the Bellator event in Sioux Falls.

I’m still crossing my fingers that it’s another buyer …

 

[RizinSon88]

It's MMA's curse of allowing a sanctioning body to also be a promoter. In boxing this would be the equivalent of the IBF being owned by Bob Arum. That's complete control of the titles and the talent. If say the UFC, Bellator, ONE, PFL and RIZIN were just sanctioning bodies then fighters could fight for any of the titles against whoever they wanted to. Or if the promoters were not allowed to control the belts then fighters would still have some flexibility for big fights.

Granted boxing matches are hindered by the promoters and network deals, but there is just more cross promotion in boxing than there is in MMA. It's kinda sad because there is no reason that Bellator/Rizin can co-promote and other orgs can't. I guess the only option is for the UFC to swallow up every other major organization, not sure that would be great but having all of the talent would make for better cards and fresh match ups, even if just the talent for UFC/Bellator and one of asian organizations combined.

 

[TorontoTO]

PFL buying Bellator is gonna be mostly just Bellator roster with more money behind it. I count like 1-3 guys in PFL who could win the Bellator. The rest would be mid card guys at the best

 

[Hellowhosthat]

PFL buying Bellator is gonna be mostly just Bellator roster with more money behind it. I count like 1-3 guys in PFL who could win the Bellator. The rest would be mid card guys at the best

I think there's plenty of guys who could be ranked in Bellator. If you mean actually winning a title then that's a taller order sure.

 

[skylolow]

It's MMA's curse of allowing a sanctioning body to also be a promoter. In boxing this would be the equivalent of the IBF being owned by Bob Arum. That's complete control of the titles and the talent. If say the UFC, Bellator, ONE, PFL and RIZIN were just sanctioning bodies then fighters could fight for any of the titles against whoever they wanted to. Or if the promoters were not allowed to control the belts then fighters would still have some flexibility for big fights.

Granted boxing matches are hindered by the promoters and network deals, but there is just more cross promotion in boxing than there is in MMA. It's kinda sad because there is no reason that Bellator/Rizin can co-promote and other orgs can't. I guess the only option is for the UFC to swallow up every other major organization, not sure that would be great but having all of the talent would make for better cards and fresh match ups, even if just the talent for UFC/Bellator and one of asian organizations combined.

I think it just comes down to what can I get out of this being the promoter in a co-promotion, mostly money is a driving factor. Maybe a little extra exposure.

The UFC is just to damn big to co promote as they gain zero from it. All the other orgs unfortunately nobody really cares that much about and if Bellator sweeps Rizin or vice versa in some co-promotion so be it. Blow jow and even a lot of hardcore fans don't believe that Bellator or ONE or any of the other orgs have the best fighters in the world. So what does the UFC gain from co promoting with anyone. People aren't buying more PPV's because of it. Most people that make your PPV buys pop don't even know ONE exist or what is going on in Bellator, unfortunately. One of these guys beats a UFC champ or whatever average joe just think its a fluke. Like today do we really believe Suzuki is better than Patricio, I don't. May be get a few more high profile wins and you can make an argument.

I do think the UFC would be willing to co-promote if you had a close or equal org doing 500+ million of revenue a year and growing. Where if they both come together they can sell 1.5M+ in PPV's. Everyone is making big money then. They could make it there yearly "wrestlemania" event and grow it to 2M+ buys. That is why it works in boxing. People follow the boxer much more so than any org. You could argue boxing fans barely give shit about the org. at the end of the day. Fans of MMA have been groomed by the UFC to be fans of the org and the fighters second. It was probably the biggest and most rewarding business decision that Zuffa ever made regarding the UFC and how to market it. Right or wrong on how anyone feels about it, it proved to be very successful. For every one fan that cares about the fighter first, tens and thousands watch just because it's the UFC and that's is perceived as the pinnacle of the sport.

 

[Stan]

It's MMA's curse of allowing a sanctioning body to also be a promoter. In boxing this would be the equivalent of the IBF being owned by Bob Arum. That's complete control of the titles and the talent. If say the UFC, Bellator, ONE, PFL and RIZIN were just sanctioning bodies then fighters could fight for any of the titles against whoever they wanted to. Or if the promoters were not allowed to control the belts then fighters would still have some flexibility for big fights.

Granted boxing matches are hindered by the promoters and network deals, but there is just more cross promotion in boxing than there is in MMA. It's kinda sad because there is no reason that Bellator/Rizin can co-promote and other orgs can't. I guess the only option is for the UFC to swallow up every other major organization, not sure that would be great but having all of the talent would make for better cards and fresh match ups, even if just the talent for UFC/Bellator and one of asian organizations combined.

Sanctioning bodies similar to professional boxing should be created for MMA since both are considered an individual combat sport. All MMA Orgs would have to go by sanctioning body rankings. This will eventually create fights between different promotions just like boxing it will level the playing field. Championship fights will be based on sanctioning body rankings also a champion from 1 sanctioning body can fight another sanctioning body champion the winner becoming a double champion in the same weightclass. MMA sanctioning bodies would collect fight fees from fighters and promoters including taking in a percentage from PPV buys. Those fees would be used to keep sanctioning bodies up and running while the rest of the money could go into funds setting up health insurance and pension for fighters based on the percentage of money they've collected from those fighters including promoter fees paid and small percentage of PPV buys when they retire from the sport. Would be the best thing to ever happen to MMA.

 

[leto1776]

I dont mind them buying Bellator. It creates a solid number 2.

In terms of a roster? Sure. In terms of a product people will watch? Doubt it, as it’ll still be PFL, and PFL sucks.

This feels like a worst-case scenario kind of thing. It will be a shame if it does happen, Coker should just retire and never show his face in MMA ever again.

It’s not Coker’s fault that he’s on a lousy network that provides zero support to its product.

Well at least I can save some money by cancelling Showtime. I wonder where PFL will end up on TV? There can't be that many willing to pay to watch it. I'd actually just rather the UFC buy it. Something about the PFL broadcast seems so unappealing. Maybe they could get Quadros and Bas to be in the booth calling the fights.

Quadra’s and Bas? What is this, 2002? Last time I heard Quadra’s commentate, he was completely phoning it in. Bas, while doing better now in Karate Combat, spent multiple commentating gigs just acting like a jackass the whole time. Those two are way past it.

Seems people in here are just mad Bellator got passed up by another org. THey wouldnt give a shit if Bellator bought PFL so its clearly not a merging of the roster issue.

I mean PFL is going for it while Bellator sits on their thumb, dont see how thats a bad thing. If they get behind this with some money, they are setting up shop in other countries trying to do regional thing and grow. They'd have a strong roster, be strongest number 2 ever behind UFC, actually putting some muscle behind it.

Aint that what you'll in here have wanted for 15 years to take on the evil UFC?

All PFL has is hedge fund money keeping them afloat. In no tangible way whatsoever have they “passed up” Bellator. Hell, they lost the ESPN deal.

Bellator’s short term money grab to go to dazn was the worst decision they ever made imo

Yeah, that deal that got them out of the red, so dumb
It wasn’t a short term money grab. It was a deal to get them distributed worldwide on a big streaming platform. The only problem was that DAZN shelled out too much, too fast. Then Covid hit.

 

[David Street]

I think it just comes down to what can I get out of this being the promoter in a co-promotion, mostly money is a driving factor. Maybe a little extra exposure.

The UFC is just to damn big to co promote as they gain zero from it. All the other orgs unfortunately nobody really cares that much about and if Bellator sweeps Rizin or vice versa in some co-promotion so be it. Blow jow and even a lot of hardcore fans don't believe that Bellator or ONE or any of the other orgs have the best fighters in the world. So what does the UFC gain from co promoting with anyone. People aren't buying more PPV's because of it. Most people that make your PPV buys pop don't even know ONE exist or what is going on in Bellator, unfortunately. One of these guys beats a UFC champ or whatever average joe just think its a fluke. Like today do we really believe Suzuki is better than Patricio, I don't. May be get a few more high profile wins and you can make an argument.

I do think the UFC would be willing to co-promote if you had a close or equal org doing 500+ million of revenue a year and growing. Where if they both come together they can sell 1.5M+ in PPV's. Everyone is making big money then. They could make it there yearly "wrestlemania" event and grow it to 2M+ buys. That is why it works in boxing. People follow the boxer much more so than any org. You could argue boxing fans barely give shit about the org. at the end of the day. Fans of MMA have been groomed by the UFC to be fans of the org and the fighters second. It was probably the biggest and most rewarding business decision that Zuffa ever made regarding the UFC and how to market it. Right or wrong on how anyone feels about it, it proved to be very successful. For every one fan that cares about the fighter first, tens and thousands watch just because it's the UFC and that's is perceived as the pinnacle of the sport.

The only way UFC would co-promote is if the other Promotion would be if the other promotion was also owned by Endeavor.

UFC & WWE are to create a new company TKO Group Holdings, and buy other combat sports... if for instance they bought One Championships then they could cross promote.
I think One would be good for TKO to buy but we know Charti would ask for over a billion which is way over its true worth. But think that the FTC and DOJ which are taking much stronger positions with regards to horizontal mergers would accept as One Championship is more of a KB & MT org. than MMA.

 

[podsox]

In terms of a roster? Sure. In terms of a product people will watch? Doubt it, as it’ll still be PFL, and PFL sucks.

It’s not Coker’s fault that he’s on a lousy network that provides zero support to its product.

Quadra’s and Bas? What is this, 2002? Last time I heard Quadra’s commentate, he was completely phoning it in. Bas, while doing better now in Karate Combat, spent multiple commentating gigs just acting like a jackass the whole time. Those two are way past it.

All PFL has is hedge fund money keeping them afloat. In no tangible way whatsoever have they “passed up” Bellator. Hell, they lost the ESPN deal.

Yeah, that deal that got them out of the red, so dumb
It wasn’t a short term money grab. It was a deal to get them distributed worldwide on a big streaming platform. The only problem was that DAZN shelled out too much, too fast. Then Covid hit.

It got them out of the red and lost them the majority of their audience

 

[TRVITMVNZ]

It wouldn't shock me at all if this merged product ends up on the CW networks

 

[leto1776]

It wouldn't shock me at all if this merged product ends up on the CW networks

Warner Brothers can;t afford anything right now. They’re busy selling off assets just to slow down their debts

 

[TRVITMVNZ]

Warner Brothers can;t afford anything right now. They’re busy selling off assets just to slow down their debts

I thought it was Nexstar?

 

[Doctor Grudge]

I find this only to be true within the USA but its not the case in Europe and Asia. Yes the USA has the biggest market so the only way for another MMA Org to become successful in the USA they would have to become very successful in Europe and Asia first and that would draw the attention of USA MMA fans.

It's not really true in the United States either. NASCAR is the most popular motorsport by a decent amount, but not to the point where F1 and IndyCar are irrelevant (and F1 is way more popular today than it was 5 years ago in the United States).

NCAA Football and NCAA Basketball are all very popular. They have events that are very much mainstream popularity despite everyone knowing they are way worse than the NBA and NFL.

AEW is popular and most people who watch wrestling do acknowledge it on a commercial level. Many wrestling fans prefer AEW over WWE, it's big enough to at least be a debate like Sega vs Nintendo.


That is also ignoring that America obviously is not the world. Japanese baseball is mainstream. Baseball is more popular in Japan than it is in the United States, so it doesn't make much sense to say that only super hardcore people watch Japanese baseball. It's very selective.

MMA is a global sport, and the top leagues are trying to be international. There very much is room for multiple top tier sports leagues especially in MMA. This already exist in many of the world's most popular sports, more popular than football, baseball, and hockey.


It took decades for a sport like basketball to become international which is why so much of its power is in the NBA (and now that it is international we see that many leagues are growing in power and popularity).

MMA has become international instantly - before the UFC even became 'mainstream', really. It's not even an American sport. Doesn't make much sense to compare it to the NFL.