Bellator Fedor vs. Bader Payout Discussion.

[Myrddin Wild]

The UFC has been paying out ~18% of revenue for the past ten years, a bit lower now. This isn't up for debate its public information from their financial filings and court discovery. 18% includes every single penny attributed to fighters - all bonuses, PPV points, travel, hotels, per diem, insurance, the performance institute.

This statement is only "not debatable" if you have a link showing why it's not debatable that I can review for myself. I only say that because I've been following this discussion for years & that tidbit about "benefits" always goes missing & is later dismissed by activists with an anti-ufc agenda.

I don't think even John Nash considers all travel & hotels for the fighter +2 cournermen, Free Thorne supplements ...& insurance & all that other stuff, but I'd be happy to review a resource that claims they did.

Back when Ngannou was new, he used teh performance institute for free to develop himself. Was the cost of teh performance institute & the man-power to run it calculated into his benefits? ...and by extension added to the UFC's "fighter pay" baseline? Is it even considered that he might not had made it to stardom if teh UFC performance institute didn't pull him through that tough time? Ngannou could've easily been starved out were it not for that resource & never even made a name for himself.

Outside of all disclosed pay, we need to look at who's being shown on camera & how much they might be making just for being there at an event. That's a legit expenditure to an athlete from teh UFC that would go completely invisible to most, and anyone who could detect it, wouldn't have any way to know the amount.

That's important to understand.

coker said theyre going to keep fedor as an ambassador of the sport/bellator. it's a win-win. we will see more of fedor, hopefully there will be a fan meet up at some point later. WAR FEDOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the kind of stuff people miss out on. There's a lot of ways to pay fighters. So Fedor makes 100k now, but he gets a contract for 100k/year (or whatever) from Coker to be his embassador... & if it's a 10 year deal, then Fedor made 1 million. There's no way to know that figure unless someone tells us, but it's extremely obvious that Fedor didn't go into a fight knowing he would lose, just to make 100k.

In the UFC... Mike Perry showing up in Poland to wave at the camera because he's considered the next fight for someone... is kind of my primary example of this, because you know that he wasn't "just in teh neighborhood." Teh UFC flew him there, paid for his hotel, and gave him probably 6 figures for doing so. It's how they hide money from other fighters who might bitch about their records being better than someone else who's making bank based on personality. You simply make their disclosed pay the same, and then give them 20 million (or whatever) to wave at the camera. It's a completely legit way to pay athletes undisclosed money.

Any promotion only haz to disclose fighter pay for the commissions. They have no mandate to disclose everything... & so obviously they don't.

This was actually layed out in an interview from Coker himself, where he explained how he levels fighter pay with "other pay". (waving to teh camera at an event for 50k n stuff) (sorry, teh vid has been taken down, but it's real & well known they greese athletes for showingz.)

Lets also not leave this out of the equation:
Teh 50/50 split foozeball has, is just teh revenue the main NFL "League" splits. Any individual owner can make more or less money on top of that. So the quoted headline is inaccurate for this discussion.

The Dallas Cowboys 2018 season has a 20% split to athletes.
Dallas Cowboys
· 950M Revenue
· 420M EBITDA (Company profit before before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization)
· 530M Total Expenses (diff between the top 2 bullets)
· 340M Expenses minus Player pay
· 610M The bullet above minus the top bullet gives us our “Revenue after expenses” (not including player pay.) This is the figure that should be fairly compared to the UFC's company/athlete split)
· 190M Player pay (20% of revenue – 31% of Revenue after expenses)

While everyone is up in arms about the UFC's split, AND COMPARING THEM TO FOOZEBALL... we have a 20% split from foozeball. Teh fook?

 

[Substance Abuse]

This statement is only "not debatable" if you have a link showing why it's not debatable that I can review for myself. I only say that because I've been following this discussion for years & that tidbit about "benefits" always goes missing & is later dismissed by activists with an anti-ufc agenda.

I don't think even John Nash considers all travel & hotels for the fighter +2 cournermen ...& insurance & all that other stuff, but I'd be happy to review a resource that claims they did.

Back when Ngannou was new, he used teh performance institute for free to develop himself. Was the cost of teh performance institute & the man-power to run it calculated into his benefits? Is it even considered that he might not had made it to stardom if teh UFC performance institute didn't pull him through that tough time? Ngannou could've easily been starved out were it not for that resource & never even made a name for himself.

Outside of all disclosed pay, we need to look at who's being shown on camera & how much they might be making just for being there at an event. That's a legit expenditure to an athlete from teh UFC that would go completely invisible to most, and anyone who could detect it, wouldn't have any way to know the amount.

That's important to understand.



This is the kind of stuff people miss out on. There's a lot of ways to pay fighters. So Fedor makes 100k now, but he gets a contract for 100k/year (or whatever) from Coker to be his embassador... & if it's a 10 year deal, then Fedor made 1 million. There's no way to know that figure unless someone tells us, but it's extremely obvious that Fedor didn't go into a fight knowing he would lose, just to make 100k.

In the UFC... Mike Perry showing up in Poland to wave at the camera because he's considered the next fight for someone... is kind of my primary example of this, because you know that he wasn't "just in teh neighborhood." Teh UFC flew him there, paid for his hotel, and gave him probably 6 figures for doing so. It's how they hide money from other fighters who might bitch about their records being better than someone else who's making bank based on personality. You simply make their disclosed pay the same, and then give them 20 million (or whatever) to wave at the camera. It's a completely legit way to pay athletes undisclosed money.

Any promotion only haz to disclose fighter pay for the commissions. They have no mandate to disclose everything... & so obviously they don't.

This was actually layed out in an interview from Coker himself, where he explained how he levels fighter pay with "other pay". (waving to teh camera at an event for 50k n stuff) (sorry, teh vid has been taken down, but it's real & well known they greese athletes for showingz.)

Lets also not leave this out of the equation:
Teh 50/50 split foozeball has, is just teh revenue the main NFL "League" splits. Any individual owner can make more or less money on top of that. So the quoted headline is inaccurate for this discussion.

The Dallas Cowboys 2018 season has a 20% split to athletes.
Dallas Cowboys
· 950M Revenue
· 420M EBITDA (Company profit before before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization)
· 530M Total Expenses (diff between the top 2 bullets)
· 340M Expenses minus Player pay
· 610M The bullet above minus the top bullet gives us our “Revenue after expenses” (not including player pay.) This is the figure that should be fairly compared to the UFC's company/athlete split)
· 190M Player pay (20% of revenue – 31% of Revenue after expenses)

While everyone is up in arms about the UFC's split, AND COMPARING THEM TO FOOZEBALL... we have a 20% split from foozeball. Teh fook?

 

[rjmbrd]

This statement is only "not debatable" if you have a link showing why it's not debatable that I can review for myself. I only say that because I've been following this discussion for years & that tidbit about "benefits" always goes missing & is later dismissed by activists with an anti-ufc agenda.

I'm confused how you apparently have access to the internet, but are unable to use Google?

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2020/2/...ucture-fighter-pay-class-action-business-news

Other Athlete Compensation includes the following fighter costs:

• Athlete sponsorship
• Athlete outfitting policy (“AOP”) payments. These are payment for wearing Reebok gear during an event and the week leading up to it.
• Medical and drug testing. This includes the USADA drug testing program.
• Insurance. This covers the accidental insurance policy.
• Athlete merchandise royalties

This is a matter of public record and literally not up for debate. You can also find lots of respected sourced like Forbes covering the current Endeavor financial filings and meetings, where we see total % of revenue to fighters go even further down. This includes every single penny attributable to fighters on their P&L

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

This statement is only "not debatable" if you have a link showing why it's not debatable that I can review for myself. I only say that because I've been following this discussion for years & that tidbit about "benefits" always goes missing & is later dismissed by activists with an anti-ufc agenda.

I don't think even John Nash considers all travel & hotels for the fighter +2 cournermen, Free Thorne supplements ...& insurance & all that other stuff, but I'd be happy to review a resource that claims they did.

Back when Ngannou was new, he used teh performance institute for free to develop himself. Was the cost of teh performance institute & the man-power to run it calculated into his benefits? ...and by extension added to the UFC's "fighter pay" baseline? Is it even considered that he might not had made it to stardom if teh UFC performance institute didn't pull him through that tough time? Ngannou could've easily been starved out were it not for that resource & never even made a name for himself.

Outside of all disclosed pay, we need to look at who's being shown on camera & how much they might be making just for being there at an event. That's a legit expenditure to an athlete from teh UFC that would go completely invisible to most, and anyone who could detect it, wouldn't have any way to know the amount.

That's important to understand.



This is the kind of stuff people miss out on. There's a lot of ways to pay fighters. So Fedor makes 100k now, but he gets a contract for 100k/year (or whatever) from Coker to be his embassador... & if it's a 10 year deal, then Fedor made 1 million. There's no way to know that figure unless someone tells us, but it's extremely obvious that Fedor didn't go into a fight knowing he would lose, just to make 100k.

In the UFC... Mike Perry showing up in Poland to wave at the camera because he's considered the next fight for someone... is kind of my primary example of this, because you know that he wasn't "just in teh neighborhood." Teh UFC flew him there, paid for his hotel, and gave him probably 6 figures for doing so. It's how they hide money from other fighters who might bitch about their records being better than someone else who's making bank based on personality. You simply make their disclosed pay the same, and then give them 20 million (or whatever) to wave at the camera. It's a completely legit way to pay athletes undisclosed money.

Any promotion only haz to disclose fighter pay for the commissions. They have no mandate to disclose everything... & so obviously they don't.

This was actually layed out in an interview from Coker himself, where he explained how he levels fighter pay with "other pay". (waving to teh camera at an event for 50k n stuff) (sorry, teh vid has been taken down, but it's real & well known they greese athletes for showingz.)

Lets also not leave this out of the equation:
Teh 50/50 split foozeball has, is just teh revenue the main NFL "League" splits. Any individual owner can make more or less money on top of that. So the quoted headline is inaccurate for this discussion.

The Dallas Cowboys 2018 season has a 20% split to athletes.
Dallas Cowboys
· 950M Revenue
· 420M EBITDA (Company profit before before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization)
· 530M Total Expenses (diff between the top 2 bullets)
· 340M Expenses minus Player pay
· 610M The bullet above minus the top bullet gives us our “Revenue after expenses” (not including player pay.) This is the figure that should be fairly compared to the UFC's company/athlete split)
· 190M Player pay (20% of revenue – 31% of Revenue after expenses)

While everyone is up in arms about the UFC's split, AND COMPARING THEM TO FOOZEBALL... we have a 20% split from foozeball. Teh fook?

dude everyone knows fedor got paid way more than 100k. that's called the "disclosed amount." everyone knows fedor got paid millions.

 

[AfroBanana]

Thats exactly another half truth, there is no chance the UFC would have actually paid him that much, the UFC pays in PPV points, even Conor doesnt get that much, yes, if you say "the UFC would´ve paid him $4m a fight", thats fight purse, no chance they pay him that, $700k + PPV is actually the type of numbers the UFC does, how much do they actually offered him for the Jones fight? We dont know, cause again, the UFC would have not signed an $8million purse...its always half truths with this orgs and fighters, Ngannou could had made that much, but its not from purse, its Purse + PPV, which is not a certainty...

They wont give actual proof of their earnings, of course they made much more, but from where? Cause according to California AC thats the official money disclosed for them, the IRS is the one actually knowing how much, but those guys are not in the discussion and never will.

Yep. I think I was confused by the lack of comprehension and information delivery people have on these forums. I was responding to people saying Bader made 9x the $150k that night (that’s what some people were saying) so I was arguing that’s not likely.

No fucking way Bader is getting million dollar bonuses. He’s basically saying he’s made 9x more than he made elsewhere which is likely the case. He won a million dollar tournament and has been sitting on belts for 3-4 years.

I think sherdog thinks it’s really easy to do fraudulent stuff in California.

 

[xentreos]

UFC pays far more than what Bellator pays though. As evidence with those numbers. Bellator still have prelim fighters making 1k / 1k.

They also don't pay for any injuries sustained in a fight, which the UFC does.

They also don't have a bonus structure either, which the UFC does.

They don't pay for injuries? I find that hard to believe, I've been completely covered fighting for orgs like LFA, so I find it hard to imagine bellator doesn't have some sort of medical coverage?

 

[Myrddin Wild]

dude everyone knows fedor got paid way more than 100k. that's called the "disclosed amount." everyone knows fedor got paid millions.

That was my point. It's getting to where people who dispute "disclosed pay" are almost not even worth correcting any more.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I'm confused how you apparently have access to the internet, but are unable to use Google?

What a fantastic way to belittle me after I simply asked for your resource. Well done... but I'm for real & it's a pretty broad subject to google... that you're assuming is easy to get whatever result you came up with & so I just asked you for this source you claim is indisputable.

Your sarcastic ass could've supplied a link to your very bold statement in your initial reply. I'm not sure I'd ever make such a bold statement without a link.

So lets get real here & stop this stupid bickering. I showed a hole in your post... & now you fill it. It's that simple. None of this bullshit cockwaving is necessary.

This link seems to be putting a lot of weird concepts together in order to make its claims. I'm not saying they're valid or not, but it's obviously going to take more time than a quick read... & I just don't have time atm. I'll get to it later though. I just thought I'd bust your ballz back in the meantime since you wanted to wave your cock at me for no reason other than me asking for a resource to your tremendous claim.

I'll get back to you when I've had time to study your link, & I'd appreciate you not being a cock about it in the meantime.

 

[Lucas Motta]

Fedor is certainly no draw in 2023. But you are way overreacting ngannous drawing power too. He himself is gonna find this out I suspect without the UFC hype machine behind him.

"Somewhat of a star", yeah, definitely overstating...

 

[Yrat]

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/list...-fedor-emelianenko-vs-ryan-bader-johnny-eblen

People shit on UFC's pay, but Bellator are paying peanuts.

Bellator has never stated that

 

[TCE]

Bellator has never stated that

Scott Coker was doing okay in the UFC.

 

[muaythaidon1]

What a fantastic way to belittle me after I simply asked for your resource. Well done... but I'm for real & it's a pretty broad subject to google... that you're assuming is easy to get whatever result you came up with & so I just asked you for this source you claim is indisputable.

Your sarcastic ass could've supplied a link to your very bold statement in your initial reply. I'm not sure I'd ever make such a bold statement without a link.

So lets get real here & stop this stupid bickering. I showed a hole in your post... & now you fill it. It's that simple. None of this bullshit cockwaving is necessary.

This link seems to be putting a lot of weird concepts together in order to make its claims. I'm not saying they're valid or not, but it's obviously going to take more time than a quick read... & I just don't have time atm. I'll get to it later though. I just thought I'd bust your ballz back in the meantime since you wanted to wave your cock at me for no reason other than me asking for a resource to your tremendous claim.

I'll get back to you when I've had time to study your link, & I'd appreciate you not being a cock about it in the meantime.

Myrddin studying the link...