Bellator 149 - shamrock vs gracie... again...

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EzFlyer

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http://www.sherdog.com/events/Bellator-149-Shamrock-vs-Gracie-48855

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Man yea, hard to cap. That's for sure.
 
Joseph Budden said:
Honestly will be surprised if either guy gets a finish in the main event, which makes this fight even more dreadful
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I think Ken will finish Royce, I really do. They are both old and have little to offer, yes. But Ken showed up to win vs Kimbo and really should have choked Kimbo out. Ken looks like he's on the Sly Stallone diet, while Royce looks like an aging club pro teaching old lady tennis lessons. And Ken's one glaring (and it's bad, no doubt) weakness is his chin. But Royce can't capitalize on it because he has the punching power of Montgomery Burns. Royce won't be able to get the fight to the mat, even if he tries to pull guard. Ken is going to make him stand and tee off on him.

I really think it will be a one sided beatdown and I'm hoping the odds aren't too steep on Ken.
 
mkess101 said:
I think Ken will finish Royce, I really do. They are both old and have little to offer, yes. But Ken showed up to win vs Kimbo and really should have choked Kimbo out. Ken looks like he's on the Sly Stallone diet, while Royce looks like an aging club pro teaching old lady tennis lessons. And Ken's one glaring (and it's bad, no doubt) weakness is his chin. But Royce can't capitalize on it because he has the punching power of Montgomery Burns. Royce won't be able to get the fight to the mat, even if he tries to pull guard. Ken is going to make him stand and tee off on him.

I really think it will be a one sided beatdown and I'm hoping the odds aren't too steep on Ken.
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Interesting
 
I'll only bet this fight if either guy's a large underdog or if there's a tantalizing prop.

I don't really buy into Ken's physique deciding who wins this because while Ken probably diets and works out like a bodybuilder, he also has the body of a 50 year-old bodybuilder. After Kimbo basically tripped on his own legs and gave up that choke by default, Ken was noticeably fatigued/arthritic when jockeying for position.

Royce might be a guy with your average man's 50 year-old body but he also hasn't destroyed himself for 20 years since his peak. I kind of think Ken's going to try and impose his will and gas, Royce just needs to survive.
 
Scythe said:
I'll only bet this fight if either guy's a large underdog or if there's a tantalizing prop.

I don't really buy into Ken's physique deciding who wins this because while Ken probably diets and works out like a bodybuilder, he also has the body of a 50 year-old bodybuilder. After Kimbo basically tripped on his own legs and gave up that choke by default, Ken was noticeably fatigued/arthritic when jockeying for position.

Royce might be a guy with your average man's 50 year-old body but he also hasn't destroyed himself for 20 years since his peak. I kind of think Ken's going to try and impose his will and gas, Royce just needs to survive.
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Obviously given my previous post I disagree.

Ken's gas tanks sucks, I'll just get that out of the way LOL. But as unskilled (and seemingly also in possession of bad knees) as Kimbo is, he's also significantly bigger and physically stronger than Ken. So while Ken did seem to tire pretty quickly jockeying for position, it was against a much bigger and stronger guy. In Royce he's fighting a guy that he's gonna outweight by 30 lbs or so and who will be significantly physically weaker than he is.

Given Ken's chin, he really had to dive in at Kimbo and try to grapple. He couldn't stand with Kimbo and once KImbo got up and any striking happened it was over. But Royce can't strike AT ALL and has no takedowns. Sure if it became just a grappling match maybe Royce gets the better of it with technique and stamina (maybe) but I don't see how he gets it to the mat unless Ken just goes full idiot mode and wants a grappling match.

Finally, I'll say that I generally don't try to get too much into a fighter's psyche to cap fights, but with Royce it has to be considered. Ken tried to win vs Kimbo. He got Kimbo down, was really close to choking him out, obviously wanted to win. Even at 50 and having deteriorated to a freak show status, he still seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Royce? I can't help believe that after not having fought for 8 years he's just doing this for a paycheck. Bellator gave him a fight against a fellow old timer for enough $ that he said "Fine, I'll do it." I think there's a very good chance the Gracie pride goes out the window the first time he gets punched and then and there decides "Fuck this, there's a reason I stopped fighting".

All that said I still wouldn't bet Ken at really high odds. It's a freakshow fight after all. But something like -175? I'll take a stab.
 
Is this at a specific weight by the way? Or just openweight (don't know how that's handled now)?
 
Royce is fighting for a pay cheque - I read not long ago he has been declared bankrupt or something along those lines.
 
Sham5916910 said:
Royce is fighting for a pay cheque - I read not long ago he has been declared bankrupt or something along those lines.
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This is true but even so I think Royce is very proud and takes winning seriously. Also this is definitly a fight Royce can win.

IMO Royce's style of fighting probably allows him to age better than that of a wrestler. I think wrestlers push their bodies too hard (especially in Ken's era) whereas I think the BJJ world (even back then) is more balanced.

I don't plan to bet this but if anything might take a small stab at Royce if I can get him at +

I really don't like this fight and the Kimbo fight for betting as they are such crap shoots.

Just my 2c.
 
Ken will want it more the loss from UFC 1 still grates him to this day. Delusional or not he loves fighting and would love nothing more than to beat Royce. Royce has a lot less wear and tear tho. I do see Ken boxing his way to a decision win tho.
 
idk, sham, the who wants it more bit -- not resonating here

imo: f this fight, i don't see any way to be confident enough to lay juice on either guy
 
I'm hoping to be able to bet Royce, which I will only do as a moderate underdog (conversation has strengthened my opinion just a bit).

I don't really see how the 14-2 guy is just in it for a payday as opposed to the guy that's 5-11 in the 2000s.

If this actually turns into an awful striking match, remember that Royce can always fall to his safety net, and will do so. If Ken ever gets hurt, he turns into a turtle before even touching the ground.
 
Scythe said:
I'm hoping to be able to bet Royce, which I will only do as a moderate underdog.

I don't really see how the 14-2 guy is just in it for a payday as opposed to the guy that's 5-11 in the 2000s.
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He's 14-2 but hasn't fought in 8 years. Eight. Years. And of those 14 wins 11 are over 20 years ago. Twenty. Years.

He supposedly has recently had financial problems. If his heart was actually still in fighting, it's hard for me to see why he'd take an 8 year hiatus and then decide to come back at his age unless it was mainly financial motivation. Guys who still have a passion for something don't leave for almost a decade.


I'm not gonna bet Ken as a steep favorite or anything, but what exactly is Royce's path to victory here? Ken's striking is pretty bad, but still light years better than Royce's. Ken will be much bigger. Maybe Royce has the cardio edge? Maybe? He has less wear and tear for sure, I'll grant that. But he still probably doesn't even have the power to hurt Ken (even with Ken's shot chin). He doesn't have the wrestling ability to take Ken down. He basically needs to...hope that Kens is stupid and actually wants a grappling match? It's possible I guess. If Ken isn't a total moron he'll keep it a striking contest and just be wary of Royce trying to pull guard or somehow drag him to the mat. And standing it's pretty one sided imo.
 
Scythe said:
I'm hoping to be able to bet Royce, which I will only do as a moderate underdog (conversation has strengthened my opinion just a bit).

I don't really see how the 14-2 guy is just in it for a payday as opposed to the guy that's 5-11 in the 2000s.

If this actually turns into an awful striking match, remember that Royce can always fall to his safety net, and will do so. If Ken ever gets hurt, he turns into a turtle before even touching the ground.
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90% of his wins are against people that had 0 idea what BJJ is though. And he was roided for the ones who did.
 
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